Red for Revolution

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<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Hello, listeners.

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<v SPEAKER_2>My name is Adrienne Marie Brown, and you are listening to a sneak peek of Red For Revolution, the audio drama.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I'm Jazmine James, and I am figuring out my sexuality, and the only one I feel comfortable sharing that with is my favorite person in the world, my grandma.

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<v SPEAKER_4>My name is Ella Ali, and I'm working towards becoming a revolutionary black woman.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Honestly, I thought she'd be disappointed in learning about who I am and who I love, but to my surprise, it turned out we have a lot more in common.

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<v SPEAKER_5>Did you tell your grandmother that you got in touch with the Lorraine Giovanni?

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<v SPEAKER_6>I miss Giovanni to some, Lorraine to few.

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<v SPEAKER_6>I sing for the people and I spread the gospel for the Lord.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And my grandmother is alive and healthy, and she's willing to tell the greatest love story I've ever heard on Ella.

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<v SPEAKER_7>Ali, darling, everyone knows who you are.

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<v SPEAKER_7>It's at your home, it's at your door, it's in your heart, it's right now.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And my goodness, it's a story.

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<v SPEAKER_8>I know who you really been out there chasing after.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Did you mean what you said in those letters?

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<v SPEAKER_7>That you love her?

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<v SPEAKER_8>The court doesn't have the final say over your life, Ella.

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<v SPEAKER_8>If you want to be a sacrificial scapegoat for a crime you didn't commit, you can be just that.

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<v SPEAKER_9>Our comrade in the struggle, Joanne Sands, was murdered.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Did you know grandma Joanne dated?

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<v SPEAKER_5>No, I did not know my mother dated my dead mother.

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<v SPEAKER_3>She's told me detail after detail.

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<v SPEAKER_8>Stop that, she is not going to start a riot.

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<v SPEAKER_5>Ain't nothing wrong with trouble, Mr.

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<v SPEAKER_5>Justice.

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<v SPEAKER_10>You're a black woman that people listen to that must feel wonderful, doesn't it?

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<v SPEAKER_7>I don't always feel like people are listening to me.

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<v SPEAKER_7>I think that question should be directed to you.

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<v SPEAKER_7>You're a black woman with a lot to say and a whole lot of people listen to you.

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<v SPEAKER_7>Ain't it wonderful?

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<v SPEAKER_3>I've decided to make a podcast about my grandmother and I'm so excited to tell the story.

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<v SPEAKER_7>Which color lip do you think I should go with?

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<v SPEAKER_7>Nude or red?

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<v SPEAKER_6>Red.

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<v SPEAKER_9>For revolution.

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<v SPEAKER_8>New from Radiotopia Presents, Red For Revolution, starts February 4th, 2025, wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v SPEAKER_8>Don't miss out on this powerful journey of love and revolution.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Radiotopia from PRX.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I want to tell you about a new show from Radiotopia Presents that we're really excited about.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It's called Red For Revolution, a six-part audio drama about black women, queer love and liberation.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We meet Jazmine, an 18-year-old who's grappling with her emerging queer identity and first crush, all while trying to mend her relationship with her homophobic mother.

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<v SPEAKER_2>As she seeks solace and guidance from her grandmother, we are transported back to 1971 to follow the passionate love affair between a jazz singer and an activist.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Two remarkable women from vastly different backgrounds, with opposing political views and living oceans apart, risk everything to embark on a romance that defies all conventions.

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<v SPEAKER_2>This show has everything, romance, family drama, history, fantastic original music, and a killer cast, including Loretta Devine, S.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Epatha Merkerson, Danny Glover, and Jennifer Beals.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Radiotopia Presents Red For Revolution, wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v SPEAKER_2>This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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<v SPEAKER_2>You chose to hit play on this podcast today.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Smart choice.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Make another smart choice with AutoQuote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, not available in all states or situations.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes, we are blessed with being able to choose the time and the arena and the manner of our revolution.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But more usually, we must do battle where we are standing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Audre Lorde.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is Adrienne Maree Brown and you are listening to Red For Revolution, the audio drama.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

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<v SPEAKER_3>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Testing 123, testing 123, testing 123, testing 123, 123, testing 123, testing 123, testing 123, 123, I think it sounds good.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I should probably start with my name.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I'm Jazmine James and the date.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It's June 1st and I just graduated high school, which is exciting and I am figuring out my sexuality, which is a journey.

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<v SPEAKER_4>The only one I feel comfortable sharing that with is my favorite person in the world, my grandma.

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<v SPEAKER_4>At first, I thought, honestly, I thought she'd be disappointed in learning about who I am and who I love, but to my surprise, she was thrilled and it turned out we have a lot more in common than I thought, and I want to talk about it while I still can.

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<v SPEAKER_4>She's still alive and healthy and full of energy, and she's willing to tell the greatest love story I've ever heard.

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<v SPEAKER_4>My goodness, it's a story.

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<v SPEAKER_4>She's told me detail after detail, and some details I did need to know, and now I can't unknow, but what can you do?

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<v SPEAKER_4>But I don't mind it.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Like, so many of these stories never get told, which is why I've decided to make a podcast about my grandmother.

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<v SPEAKER_4>And I'm so excited to tell this story to anyone who will listen.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Adrian, I'm freaking out.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I'm sweating, and now I'm starting to feel sick.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I think I should cancel my interview with Lorraine Giovanni.

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<v SPEAKER_5>No, no, no, no, no.

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<v SPEAKER_6>You should not cancel.

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<v SPEAKER_6>You just have to remember to breathe.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Come on, breathe with me.

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<v SPEAKER_6>I am breathing.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Slowly, Jazmine.

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<v SPEAKER_6>As long as you write down all of your questions, you should be fine.

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<v SPEAKER_6>This won't be the time to trust your memory, though.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Right.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>What if she doesn't like my questions?

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<v SPEAKER_6>You're her ex's granddaughter.

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<v SPEAKER_6>She should be nice to you.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Hopefully.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Lorraine doesn't know that I'm her ex's granddaughter.

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<v SPEAKER_5>Oh.

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<v SPEAKER_6>She does, okay.

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<v SPEAKER_6>What does she know?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I told her in our interview was, for a paper I was writing on something, I don't remember the thesis of the imaginary paper I told her about.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Are you lying to the pastor?

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<v SPEAKER_4>She's not a pastor.

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<v SPEAKER_4>She's an evangelist.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Pastor, evangelist, because that makes it better.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Did you tell your grandmother that you got in touch with the Lorraine Giovanni?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, absolutely not.

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<v SPEAKER_6>You're going to tell her, right?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Eventually.

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<v SPEAKER_4>One day in the future, after I've compiled all the interviews and edited them together, and when it feels right to tell them, I will do that.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Whatever you say.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Invite me over when you do that.

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<v SPEAKER_6>I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, I got five minutes until my Zoom with Lorraine, I mean, Miss Giovanni.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I got to make sure I say miss, or should I say Pastor Giovanni?

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<v SPEAKER_6>Evangelist.

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<v SPEAKER_6>She's not a pastor, remember.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

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<v SPEAKER_4>But why does she not even into titles?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Should I just say Lorraine?

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<v SPEAKER_6>Girl, are you trying to get virtually slapped for disrespecting your elders?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Duh.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Right.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>So, I should say miss Evangelist Giovanni.

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<v SPEAKER_4>No first names at all, ever.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Jaz, listen, I'm just playing with you.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Just don't overthink it.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I gotta go.

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<v SPEAKER_6>You got this.

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<v SPEAKER_6>I believe in you.

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<v SPEAKER_5>Bye.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Lorraine still hasn't logged on.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I hope she doesn't have any tech problems.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know why I'm so nervous.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Just breathe.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Just un-breathe.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Feet on the ground.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Feet on the ground.

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<v SPEAKER_9>Hello?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I can't believe she agreed to talk to me.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, Lord.

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<v SPEAKER_4>How should I go about asking her about her gay romances?

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<v SPEAKER_9>Hello there.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Oh.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Hi.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Sorry.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't realize you were the Zoom.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Did you hear that?

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<v SPEAKER_11>So, you want to ask me about my love affairs?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, no.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, right.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Um...

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<v SPEAKER_11>It's okay, darling.

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<v SPEAKER_11>Don't be nervous.

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<v SPEAKER_11>You can ask me anything you'd like.

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<v SPEAKER_11>I trust you mean well.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Sorry.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Like, I don't want to blabber on too much, but it's really just such an honor to speak with you.

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<v SPEAKER_4>You're such an icon, and I grew up listening to your music because my grandma, she played your...

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<v SPEAKER_4>She plays your music all the time.

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<v SPEAKER_4>So...

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<v SPEAKER_11>Your grandmother sounds like a wonderful woman.

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<v SPEAKER_4>All right, grandma, let's get started.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Before I forget, can you tell me your name, title, age, and, um, where you are?

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<v SPEAKER_4>And remember to speak it full sentences.

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<v SPEAKER_10>My name is Ella Ali.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I'm a mother, grandmother, daughter, professor of philosophy, and I'm working towards becoming a revolutionary black woman.

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<v SPEAKER_10>That's an ever-evolving journey.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, and we're in my living room.

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<v SPEAKER_11>I miss Giovanni to some, evangelist Giovanni to many, Lorraine to few.

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<v SPEAKER_11>I sing for the people and I spread the gospel for the Lord.

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<v SPEAKER_11>Right now, I'm at the Beat Hotel in Paris.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, I've always wanted to go to Paris.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Sorry, please continue.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Jazz, is it still recording?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, so make sure not to move your scarf because the mic is on.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Well, I think it was 1971 when Joe passed.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, child, I don't remember the year, but I do remember the day that I got the news that brought me to my knees.

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<v SPEAKER_10>It was a Tuesday.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I heard on the radio early that morning that my best friend had died.

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<v SPEAKER_10>She was killed, rather.

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<v SPEAKER_10>The reporters had all kinds of things to say about her.

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<v SPEAKER_4>What did they say about Joanne?

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<v SPEAKER_10>I'm not repeating any of it.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Was it nothing kind or true?

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<v SPEAKER_10>The news back then was just as vicious as it is today.

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<v SPEAKER_10>They didn't care about Joanne.

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<v SPEAKER_10>They only saw her as a...

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<v SPEAKER_13>Please enjoy Jazz Singular, a little bit strange about his new essay.

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<v SPEAKER_12>Militant radical Joanne Sands was fatally shot by a New York City prison guard.

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<v SPEAKER_12>The NYPD reports the shooting was an act of self-defense.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I don't remember how many packs of cigarettes I smoked that day, but that's all I did.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I sat by my window, smoking, and staring at the rain, wishing that when I gave Jo a call, she'd pick up.

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<v SPEAKER_10>But she didn't.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I wasn't the only one distraught by this news.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Everyone was shaken up.

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<v SPEAKER_10>I remember Lorraine telling me about the days she found out about Joanne.

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<v SPEAKER_11>I never thought JoJo would go on and transition before I did.

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<v SPEAKER_10>We buried Joanne not too long after her...

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<v SPEAKER_4>Assassination.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_10>People didn't want too much time to pass because the police had already started arresting us in the Black Liberation Coalition.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Everyone wanted to have a funeral before things got out of hand.

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<v SPEAKER_11>The funeral was in Joanne's and I's hometown, Gary, Indiana.

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<v SPEAKER_11>And I don't remember what I even wore.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Lorraine wore an elegant black dress.

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<v SPEAKER_10>Simple but elegant.

00:10:55.088 --> 00:11:01.308

<v SPEAKER_10>But she couldn't help but accompany it was one of those fabulous fur coats she always wore.

00:11:02.988 --> 00:11:05.108

<v SPEAKER_11>I remember what Ella wore.

00:11:07.428 --> 00:11:11.688

<v SPEAKER_11>I didn't forget because she wore a dress that day.

00:11:11.688 --> 00:11:13.808

<v SPEAKER_11>She rarely did that.

00:11:13.808 --> 00:11:17.228

<v SPEAKER_11>Called herself taking a stand against the patriarchy.

00:11:18.648 --> 00:11:22.988

<v SPEAKER_11>But for Joanne, she wore a dress.

00:11:22.988 --> 00:11:28.448

<v SPEAKER_11>But she couldn't help but wear her infamous leather jacket with it.

00:11:29.828 --> 00:11:35.028

<v SPEAKER_10>I can still hear those woeful cries from the day we buried her.

00:11:35.028 --> 00:11:38.028

<v SPEAKER_10>Everyone was overtaken with grief.

00:11:38.028 --> 00:11:41.788

<v SPEAKER_10>Lorraine sang a sorrowful song.

00:11:41.788 --> 00:11:45.548

<v SPEAKER_10>I'll never forget seeing everyone cry.

00:11:45.548 --> 00:11:50.828

<v SPEAKER_10>They all cried, except for me.

00:11:50.828 --> 00:11:59.128

<v SPEAKER_10>I took off my sunglasses and watched them lower the casket into the ground.

00:12:00.788 --> 00:12:05.708

<v SPEAKER_10>After she finished singing, Lorraine took off her sunglasses.

00:12:06.908 --> 00:12:08.508

<v SPEAKER_10>She looked at me.

00:12:10.048 --> 00:12:13.388

<v SPEAKER_10>I knew her pain and she knew mine.

00:12:15.508 --> 00:12:27.828

<v SPEAKER_10>And as everyone cried, we stood there, gazing at each other to keep from crying.

00:12:27.828 --> 00:12:29.568

<v SPEAKER_4>Do you want me to stop recording?

00:12:31.568 --> 00:12:33.708

<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, let me get you some tissue.

00:12:35.968 --> 00:12:37.968

<v SPEAKER_4>And yeah, let's just take a break for today.

00:12:43.417 --> 00:12:46.237

<v SPEAKER_11>I just couldn't keep my eyes off Ella.

00:12:46.237 --> 00:12:51.937

<v SPEAKER_11>She had this, what do you call it, allure about her.

00:12:51.937 --> 00:12:54.957

<v SPEAKER_11>I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

00:12:55.977 --> 00:13:04.477

<v SPEAKER_11>Now, I wish she had a moment at the funeral, but I didn't officially meet Ella until a few days later at this rally in my hometown Gary.

00:13:08.277 --> 00:13:09.477

<v SPEAKER_14>Miss Ali, you're our guest.

00:13:09.477 --> 00:13:10.297

<v SPEAKER_14>You don't got to do that.

00:13:10.677 --> 00:13:13.697

<v SPEAKER_9>You don't have to call me miss and I don't mind.

00:13:13.697 --> 00:13:15.577

<v SPEAKER_14>Really?

00:13:15.617 --> 00:13:21.297

<v SPEAKER_14>I'm going to get in a lot of trouble if my boss sees you out here sitting up these chairs.

00:13:21.297 --> 00:13:22.377

<v SPEAKER_5>All right.

00:13:22.377 --> 00:13:24.797

<v SPEAKER_9>I suppose I don't want to cause a fuss.

00:13:24.797 --> 00:13:26.117

<v SPEAKER_14>Is there anything I can get you?

00:13:26.117 --> 00:13:27.697

<v SPEAKER_14>Water.

00:13:27.697 --> 00:13:29.717

<v SPEAKER_15>Testing, testing.

00:13:35.957 --> 00:13:37.217

<v SPEAKER_9>My goodness.

00:13:37.217 --> 00:13:40.497

<v SPEAKER_14>Lorraine Giovanni in the flesh.

00:13:40.537 --> 00:13:42.477

<v SPEAKER_14>I just love to come home to her every night.

00:13:42.477 --> 00:13:44.357

<v SPEAKER_9>So would I.

00:13:44.357 --> 00:13:46.317

<v SPEAKER_9>I mean her music.

00:13:48.157 --> 00:13:50.897

<v SPEAKER_9>I should buy more of her records.

00:13:52.157 --> 00:13:53.937

<v SPEAKER_9>How about that water?

00:14:15.997 --> 00:14:18.237

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't think I want to sing this one.

00:14:23.677 --> 00:14:25.837

<v SPEAKER_9>That was incredible.

00:14:27.037 --> 00:14:27.897

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm Ella.

00:14:28.097 --> 00:14:29.177

<v SPEAKER_15>Ali.

00:14:29.177 --> 00:14:30.957

<v SPEAKER_15>I know.

00:14:30.957 --> 00:14:33.577

<v SPEAKER_15>Darling, everyone knows who you are.

00:14:33.577 --> 00:14:35.577

<v SPEAKER_9>It's an honor to finally meet you.

00:14:35.577 --> 00:14:36.957

<v SPEAKER_15>An honor?

00:14:36.957 --> 00:14:38.937

<v SPEAKER_15>Really?

00:14:38.937 --> 00:14:41.457

<v SPEAKER_15>I ain't think you'd like me.

00:14:41.457 --> 00:14:46.177

<v SPEAKER_15>People like you tend to come after me for not doing enough for our people.

00:14:46.177 --> 00:14:46.577

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm not.

00:14:46.577 --> 00:14:47.377

<v SPEAKER_15>No, I try.

00:14:47.377 --> 00:14:48.797

<v SPEAKER_15>My goodness, I really do.

00:14:48.797 --> 00:14:52.697

<v SPEAKER_15>But my manager's afraid I'm going to end up like Hazel Scott.

00:14:52.697 --> 00:14:53.877

<v SPEAKER_6>Who?

00:14:53.877 --> 00:14:55.117

<v SPEAKER_15>Oh, dear.

00:14:55.117 --> 00:14:56.177

<v SPEAKER_15>My point exactly.

00:14:57.317 --> 00:14:59.697

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, I understand your dilemma.

00:15:00.037 --> 00:15:00.717

<v SPEAKER_9>And I do.

00:15:01.897 --> 00:15:06.057

<v SPEAKER_9>I especially like that voice of yours.

00:15:06.057 --> 00:15:11.037

<v SPEAKER_9>Like, I already can't wait to hear you again tonight.

00:15:11.037 --> 00:15:14.077

<v SPEAKER_15>Let's just hope my nerves don't get the best of me before then.

00:15:14.077 --> 00:15:15.397

<v SPEAKER_9>You still get nervous?

00:15:15.397 --> 00:15:15.957

<v SPEAKER_15>Yes, honey.

00:15:15.957 --> 00:15:17.377

<v SPEAKER_15>Don't you?

00:15:17.377 --> 00:15:17.557

<v SPEAKER_14>Ms.

00:15:17.557 --> 00:15:19.477

<v SPEAKER_14>Ali, it's time for your sound check.

00:15:19.477 --> 00:15:20.117

<v SPEAKER_9>Okay.

00:15:20.117 --> 00:15:20.717

<v SPEAKER_9>Thank you.

00:15:20.717 --> 00:15:24.237

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, you're from Gary, aren't you?

00:15:24.237 --> 00:15:25.117

<v SPEAKER_15>Born and raised.

00:15:26.497 --> 00:15:29.097

<v SPEAKER_9>I could use your opinion on my speech.

00:15:29.217 --> 00:15:31.157

<v SPEAKER_9>I've never spoken here before.

00:15:31.157 --> 00:15:35.557

<v SPEAKER_9>Want to make sure my message resonates with your people.

00:15:35.557 --> 00:15:37.437

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't think you'll have a problem.

00:15:37.437 --> 00:15:41.557

<v SPEAKER_15>Folks already lined up all the way down the street just to see you.

00:15:41.557 --> 00:15:46.877

<v SPEAKER_15>But I suppose I'll listen to your speech, see what the hype's about.

00:15:56.034 --> 00:15:58.774

<v SPEAKER_9>Good evening, friends of freedom.

00:15:59.934 --> 00:16:01.854

<v SPEAKER_9>My name is Ella Ali.

00:16:01.854 --> 00:16:06.654

<v SPEAKER_9>For those who don't know, I am a revolutionary black woman.

00:16:06.654 --> 00:16:14.654

<v SPEAKER_9>The organizer of this event, Sun, was just sent to make Vietnam look like our poverty-stricken communities.

00:16:14.654 --> 00:16:23.354

<v SPEAKER_9>So I was asked to speak about this racist, imperialist war going on.

00:16:23.354 --> 00:16:29.734

<v SPEAKER_9>I was then told many of you have just started protesting for better wages at the mill.

00:16:29.734 --> 00:16:29.914

<v SPEAKER_14>Ms.

00:16:29.914 --> 00:16:31.734

<v SPEAKER_14>Giovanni, would you like tea?

00:16:31.734 --> 00:16:33.154

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm trying to listen here.

00:16:33.154 --> 00:16:34.734

<v SPEAKER_11>Sorry.

00:16:34.734 --> 00:16:35.774

<v SPEAKER_14>So you don't want?

00:16:38.134 --> 00:16:51.474

<v SPEAKER_9>But then, I was, then my, my comrade, our comrade in the struggle, Joanne Sands, was murdered.

00:16:51.474 --> 00:16:54.574

<v SPEAKER_9>So I was asked to speak about revolutionary black women.

00:16:54.574 --> 00:17:02.874

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, that's, that's not exactly what I was asked, but I find it fitting to uplift black women today.

00:17:06.334 --> 00:17:14.094

<v SPEAKER_9>How is it that black women do so much protecting but are the most unprotected in this country?

00:17:24.034 --> 00:17:27.034

<v SPEAKER_9>You all got silent on me.

00:17:27.034 --> 00:17:27.934

<v SPEAKER_9>But that's okay.

00:17:27.934 --> 00:17:29.234

<v SPEAKER_5>Go ahead now.

00:17:29.234 --> 00:17:30.554

<v SPEAKER_15>Speak your mind.

00:17:30.554 --> 00:17:36.154

<v SPEAKER_9>Don't make the mistake of not protecting each other.

00:17:36.154 --> 00:17:40.934

<v SPEAKER_9>If we had not made that mistake, Joanne Sands would be here today.

00:17:41.814 --> 00:17:47.014

<v SPEAKER_9>It's 1971 and time we learn silence won't serve us.

00:17:53.037 --> 00:17:54.977

<v SPEAKER_9>So...

00:17:54.977 --> 00:17:56.317

<v SPEAKER_9>What do you think?

00:17:57.877 --> 00:18:00.397

<v SPEAKER_15>I think I'm in love.

00:18:00.397 --> 00:18:01.957

<v SPEAKER_12>With me?

00:18:01.957 --> 00:18:04.197

<v SPEAKER_15>Revolution, darling.

00:18:05.697 --> 00:18:06.857

<v SPEAKER_3>Of course.

00:18:07.897 --> 00:18:09.037

<v SPEAKER_9>That's great.

00:18:09.037 --> 00:18:11.797

<v SPEAKER_14>Miss Giovanni, your dressing room is ready now.

00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:29.650

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to intrude while you were getting dressed.

00:18:29.650 --> 00:18:31.570

<v SPEAKER_9>They told me this was my dressing room.

00:18:31.570 --> 00:18:33.170

<v SPEAKER_15>You can come on in.

00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:39.430

<v SPEAKER_15>It's been a while since I've had to share a dressing room.

00:18:39.430 --> 00:18:42.130

<v SPEAKER_15>Can you hand me that robe?

00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:44.930

<v SPEAKER_5>Sure.

00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:45.650

<v SPEAKER_15>Thank you, darling.

00:18:56.053 --> 00:18:58.413

<v SPEAKER_9>And Ma'Rainey, you're singing.

00:18:58.413 --> 00:18:59.973

<v SPEAKER_15>You and Ma'Rainey fans.

00:18:59.973 --> 00:19:06.153

<v SPEAKER_9>She and those blues women could sing a sad song so filled with hope, consciousness.

00:19:07.433 --> 00:19:09.493

<v SPEAKER_15>I wish I could be more like them.

00:19:09.493 --> 00:19:10.813

<v SPEAKER_9>Why can't you?

00:19:10.813 --> 00:19:20.653

<v SPEAKER_15>It's complicated, but you, what they call y'all, those radicals, y'all don't know nothing about that.

00:19:20.693 --> 00:19:22.673

<v SPEAKER_9>It can't be that complicated.

00:19:22.673 --> 00:19:23.613

<v SPEAKER_9>What you got to lose?

00:19:25.493 --> 00:19:27.093

<v SPEAKER_9>Freedom?

00:19:27.093 --> 00:19:30.153

<v SPEAKER_9>You don't seem like you have much of that anyway.

00:19:32.033 --> 00:19:36.393

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't want to end up like these blues women you love so much.

00:19:36.393 --> 00:19:39.933

<v SPEAKER_15>And I don't want to end up like my friend Joanne.

00:19:39.933 --> 00:19:42.753

<v SPEAKER_15>I can't sing those songs from the grave.

00:19:42.773 --> 00:19:45.413

<v SPEAKER_9>Is that why you silence yourself?

00:19:45.413 --> 00:19:47.093

<v SPEAKER_9>You're afraid of dying?

00:19:53.131 --> 00:20:00.351

<v SPEAKER_9>There's a whole lot of liquor sitting in here for someone that's afraid to die.

00:20:03.531 --> 00:20:07.911

<v SPEAKER_9>So what's really keeping you from living the way you want to?

00:20:08.091 --> 00:20:09.531

<v SPEAKER_8>Mm-hmm.

00:20:09.531 --> 00:20:12.511

<v SPEAKER_15>You so-called revolutionaries are bold.

00:20:13.631 --> 00:20:16.371

<v SPEAKER_15>You really serious about speaking your mind.

00:20:16.371 --> 00:20:18.531

<v SPEAKER_15>Ain't nothing wrong with that.

00:20:18.531 --> 00:20:21.031

<v SPEAKER_15>But don't act like there ain't a price to pay for speaking your mind.

00:20:23.511 --> 00:20:26.531

<v SPEAKER_9>Got a whole lot of makeup up there.

00:20:26.531 --> 00:20:29.851

<v SPEAKER_15>I use all this to become Lorraine Giovanni.

00:20:29.851 --> 00:20:32.751

<v SPEAKER_9>Who are you when you don't have your mascot?

00:20:32.751 --> 00:20:38.871

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm just Lorraine, with a lowercase L, Giovanni, with a lowercase G.

00:20:42.471 --> 00:20:45.671

<v SPEAKER_9>That lip color looks great on you.

00:20:45.671 --> 00:20:47.311

<v SPEAKER_15>Want to try it on?

00:20:47.311 --> 00:20:48.051

<v SPEAKER_9>I suppose.

00:20:50.051 --> 00:20:51.471

<v SPEAKER_15>Sit right here.

00:20:52.611 --> 00:20:54.131

<v SPEAKER_15>Look up at me.

00:21:01.251 --> 00:21:03.071

<v SPEAKER_15>Smack your lips for me.

00:21:04.811 --> 00:21:06.211

<v SPEAKER_15>See?

00:21:06.211 --> 00:21:07.891

<v SPEAKER_15>That looks good on you.

00:21:07.891 --> 00:21:09.311

<v SPEAKER_9>If you say so.

00:21:09.311 --> 00:21:11.191

<v SPEAKER_15>I do, and it does.

00:21:11.191 --> 00:21:16.371

<v SPEAKER_15>Now, which color lip do you think I should go with, nude or red?

00:21:17.611 --> 00:21:18.931

<v SPEAKER_9>Red.

00:21:18.931 --> 00:21:20.571

<v SPEAKER_9>For revolution.

00:21:22.431 --> 00:21:23.811

<v SPEAKER_15>You want to put it on me?

00:21:24.351 --> 00:21:28.131

<v SPEAKER_9>I know a thing or two about lipstick, you know?

00:21:28.131 --> 00:21:30.251

<v SPEAKER_15>Okay, well.

00:21:30.251 --> 00:21:30.591

<v SPEAKER_15>Show me.

00:21:39.781 --> 00:21:39.901

<v SPEAKER_14>Ms.

00:21:39.901 --> 00:21:40.941

<v SPEAKER_14>Ali, we're ready for you.

00:21:55.811 --> 00:21:59.831

<v SPEAKER_14>Come on, let's go.

00:22:00.571 --> 00:22:00.791

<v SPEAKER_9>Let's go.

00:22:00.791 --> 00:22:01.211

<v SPEAKER_14>Let's go.

00:22:01.211 --> 00:22:01.571

<v SPEAKER_15>Let's go.

00:22:02.711 --> 00:22:04.571

<v SPEAKER_14>Let's go.

00:22:04.571 --> 00:22:04.871

<v SPEAKER_14>Let's go.

00:22:04.871 --> 00:22:05.111

<v SPEAKER_14>Let's go.

00:22:05.111 --> 00:22:05.411

<v SPEAKER_1>Let's go.

00:22:05.791 --> 00:22:06.831

<v SPEAKER_14>Let's go.

00:22:06.911 --> 00:22:08.691

<v SPEAKER_8>Shit!

00:22:08.691 --> 00:22:11.651

<v SPEAKER_14>It's on your neck and your cheek.

00:22:11.651 --> 00:22:13.891

<v SPEAKER_14>Here, you can use my handkerchief.

00:22:15.611 --> 00:22:16.871

<v SPEAKER_15>Is it still there?

00:22:16.871 --> 00:22:18.151

<v SPEAKER_14>It's gone now.

00:22:18.151 --> 00:22:19.831

<v SPEAKER_15>Oh, thank God.

00:22:19.831 --> 00:22:21.891

<v SPEAKER_15>You too, dear.

00:22:21.891 --> 00:22:23.951

<v SPEAKER_13>She was born right here in Gary.

00:22:23.951 --> 00:22:30.331

<v SPEAKER_13>Let's give a round of applause and a loud welcome home to Lorraine Giovanni!

00:22:35.771 --> 00:22:50.551

<v SPEAKER_15>I was going to sing some song about the sun or something, but then I realized if I want to be anything like my late friend Joanne Sands or my new friend Ella Ali, I'm going to have to do things differently from now on.

00:22:50.551 --> 00:22:53.511

<v SPEAKER_15>So I thought it more fitting to sing a song about revolution.

00:25:37.437 --> 00:25:40.777

<v SPEAKER_15>Ella, darling, you got lipstick smudged on your face.

00:25:40.777 --> 00:25:45.637

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, oh my, you think people noticed?

00:25:45.637 --> 00:25:48.837

<v SPEAKER_15>We're gonna have to be a bit more careful next time.

00:25:48.837 --> 00:25:52.457

<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, so who made the first move?

00:25:52.457 --> 00:25:57.817

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, Lorraine likes to take credit for that, but technically, I did.

00:25:57.817 --> 00:26:00.437

<v SPEAKER_9>You're being awfully nice to me.

00:26:01.677 --> 00:26:03.097

<v SPEAKER_9>You don't seem like the nice type.

00:26:04.177 --> 00:26:06.057

<v SPEAKER_15>Is that so?

00:26:06.057 --> 00:26:09.637

<v SPEAKER_15>Well, I'm nice to ladies I like.

00:26:09.637 --> 00:26:13.517

<v SPEAKER_9>So you like me?

00:26:13.517 --> 00:26:16.797

<v SPEAKER_15>That depends on if you like me.

00:26:18.217 --> 00:26:25.157

<v SPEAKER_8>I've got a crush on you.

00:26:27.157 --> 00:26:36.637

<v SPEAKER_4>Before you get into any explicit and discomforting details, I have to applaud your boldness because I could never.

00:26:36.637 --> 00:26:37.797

<v SPEAKER_10>Sure you can.

00:26:37.797 --> 00:26:38.477

<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:26:38.477 --> 00:26:41.457

<v SPEAKER_4>I don't think my heart could handle the rejection if it doesn't go my way.

00:26:41.457 --> 00:26:44.297

<v SPEAKER_4>Like, how do I know if someone likes me back?

00:26:44.297 --> 00:26:52.577

<v SPEAKER_10>If you're talking about that little cute thing who gives you a ride home from work every day, she likes you.

00:26:52.577 --> 00:26:53.837

<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:26:53.877 --> 00:26:59.277

<v SPEAKER_10>The way gas prices are right now, baby, nobody's heart is that good.

00:27:00.437 --> 00:27:01.917

<v SPEAKER_4>Then she can ask me out.

00:27:01.917 --> 00:27:10.937

<v SPEAKER_10>Your lips move, you know the alphabet, even subject-verb agreement, asking for what you want isn't that hard.

00:27:10.937 --> 00:27:11.797

<v SPEAKER_4>Well, that's what you say.

00:27:11.797 --> 00:27:13.057

<v SPEAKER_4>I'm not like you.

00:27:13.077 --> 00:27:15.357

<v SPEAKER_10>Listen, I understand.

00:27:15.357 --> 00:27:18.297

<v SPEAKER_10>I've had my fair share of rejection.

00:27:18.297 --> 00:27:21.477

<v SPEAKER_10>I'll never forget the day Joanne broke my heart.

00:27:21.477 --> 00:27:22.097

<v SPEAKER_10>I was so-

00:27:22.517 --> 00:27:25.657

<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, you were with Joanne?

00:27:25.657 --> 00:27:27.257

<v SPEAKER_15>Yes.

00:27:27.257 --> 00:27:31.177

<v SPEAKER_10>And I wasn't the only one with Joanne, but that's a story for another day.

00:27:31.177 --> 00:27:33.317

<v SPEAKER_4>It can be today.

00:27:33.317 --> 00:27:39.457

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, after the rally, we went outside to smoke a cigarette.

00:27:41.117 --> 00:27:42.637

<v SPEAKER_15>So what'd you think?

00:27:42.637 --> 00:27:46.017

<v SPEAKER_9>I could listen to you sing just about anything.

00:27:46.017 --> 00:27:48.677

<v SPEAKER_9>But I love the nod to Nina.

00:27:50.357 --> 00:27:53.117

<v SPEAKER_9>Joanne would have loved it.

00:27:53.117 --> 00:27:56.757

<v SPEAKER_9>She was her favorite singer, but next to you, of course.

00:27:56.757 --> 00:27:58.637

<v SPEAKER_15>You don't have to lie to me.

00:27:58.637 --> 00:28:03.697

<v SPEAKER_15>Joanne has been hearing me sing since we were kids in the church choir.

00:28:03.697 --> 00:28:07.457

<v SPEAKER_15>She got tired of my voice before I even sold a record.

00:28:07.457 --> 00:28:09.317

<v SPEAKER_15>I know Nina was her favorite.

00:28:09.317 --> 00:28:12.297

<v SPEAKER_15>She probably prefer her version.

00:28:12.297 --> 00:28:15.857

<v SPEAKER_15>The many nights we spent together, she would wear her records out.

00:28:17.537 --> 00:28:24.197

<v SPEAKER_9>You, uh, you and Jo spent nights together?

00:28:24.197 --> 00:28:25.657

<v SPEAKER_15>We had our fun.

00:28:27.617 --> 00:28:29.857

<v SPEAKER_9>What kind of fun?

00:28:29.857 --> 00:28:33.537

<v SPEAKER_15>The kind of fun folks like us tend not to talk about.

00:28:34.697 --> 00:28:38.697

<v SPEAKER_15>The kind I'd like to have with you.

00:28:40.537 --> 00:28:45.317

<v SPEAKER_15>The look on your face, it's making me think you had fun with her, too.

00:28:45.877 --> 00:28:48.737

<v SPEAKER_9>How long were you together?

00:28:48.737 --> 00:28:50.837

<v SPEAKER_15>We were always off and on, you know.

00:28:50.837 --> 00:28:52.177

<v SPEAKER_9>I don't.

00:28:52.177 --> 00:28:57.137

<v SPEAKER_9>When was the last time you two had fun?

00:28:57.137 --> 00:28:59.257

<v SPEAKER_15>The last time I saw her?

00:28:59.257 --> 00:29:03.737

<v SPEAKER_15>We saw Nina in New Jersey just weeks before.

00:29:04.197 --> 00:29:07.297

<v SPEAKER_9>We were supposed to go to that show.

00:29:08.537 --> 00:29:12.297

<v SPEAKER_9>I got tickets before we stopped.

00:29:12.437 --> 00:29:17.357

<v SPEAKER_9>But I stopped talking to her.

00:29:17.357 --> 00:29:19.617

<v SPEAKER_15>Now what was the reason for that?

00:29:20.897 --> 00:29:27.897

<v SPEAKER_9>I told Joel how I felt about her, that I loved her.

00:29:29.857 --> 00:29:32.517

<v SPEAKER_9>The way folks like us aren't supposed to love.

00:29:32.517 --> 00:29:37.837

<v SPEAKER_9>And well, she didn't feel the same way.

00:29:40.877 --> 00:29:44.657

<v SPEAKER_9>But I suppose she couldn't be with me because she wasn't in love with you.

00:29:44.657 --> 00:29:48.337

<v SPEAKER_9>You got those final moments with her.

00:29:48.337 --> 00:29:52.937

<v SPEAKER_9>And all I got was I don't want to love you, Ella.

00:29:52.937 --> 00:29:54.517

<v SPEAKER_15>She didn't love me.

00:29:56.337 --> 00:29:58.697

<v SPEAKER_15>Not in the real way.

00:29:58.697 --> 00:30:03.317

<v SPEAKER_15>And I wasn't trying to love or be loved either.

00:30:03.317 --> 00:30:05.497

<v SPEAKER_15>And she knew that.

00:30:05.497 --> 00:30:06.217

<v SPEAKER_15>We had fun.

00:30:06.697 --> 00:30:07.497

<v SPEAKER_15>Nothing more than that.

00:30:14.570 --> 00:30:17.610

<v SPEAKER_9>Fun is for the cowards, I don't want any part of it.

00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:18.970

<v SPEAKER_14>Ms.

00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.130

<v SPEAKER_14>Giovanni, there's a man named Sean yelling for you.

00:30:23.190 --> 00:30:25.290

<v SPEAKER_14>He says you're gonna miss your flight.

00:30:25.290 --> 00:30:26.990

<v SPEAKER_9>Goodbye, Lorraine.

00:30:26.990 --> 00:30:29.810

<v SPEAKER_15>Ella, hold on now.

00:30:29.810 --> 00:30:31.950

<v SPEAKER_15>It really isn't what you're thinking.

00:30:35.330 --> 00:30:37.730

<v SPEAKER_4>That can't be how you ended things.

00:30:37.730 --> 00:30:43.130

<v SPEAKER_10>It's only how we started things, but we have to continue tomorrow.

00:30:43.750 --> 00:30:46.650

<v SPEAKER_10>You can't have me sitting in this uncomfortable chair all day.

00:31:08.364 --> 00:31:10.064

<v SPEAKER_6>Hey, friend, what's up?

00:31:11.144 --> 00:31:13.864

<v SPEAKER_4>Hi, friend.

00:31:13.864 --> 00:31:19.944

<v SPEAKER_4>I'm actually calling to talk about our friendship.

00:31:22.424 --> 00:31:26.684

<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I wanted to tell you something.

00:31:26.684 --> 00:31:28.024

<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I guess I didn't wanna tell you.

00:31:28.024 --> 00:31:30.204

<v SPEAKER_4>My grandma said that I should tell you.

00:31:32.724 --> 00:31:37.524

<v SPEAKER_4>Sorry, I'm a little nervous about it.

00:31:37.944 --> 00:31:39.744

<v SPEAKER_5>Oh, okay.

00:31:39.744 --> 00:31:40.684

<v SPEAKER_6>Now I'm getting nervous.

00:31:40.684 --> 00:31:42.084

<v SPEAKER_6>You wanna just text it to me?

00:31:42.104 --> 00:31:46.864

<v SPEAKER_4>Um, I'm gonna play you a song from the Lorraine's latest album.

00:31:46.864 --> 00:31:51.484

<v SPEAKER_4>Um, and it kinda gets at what I wanna say.

00:31:51.484 --> 00:31:51.604

<v SPEAKER_4>So.

00:31:58.624 --> 00:32:00.864

<v SPEAKER_11>I've got a...

00:33:18.703 --> 00:33:21.183

<v SPEAKER_3>Thank you for listening to Red For Revolution.

00:33:21.183 --> 00:33:24.463

<v SPEAKER_3>Our differences melt away in dialogue.

00:33:24.463 --> 00:33:29.863

<v SPEAKER_3>We hope this episode inspires you to call someone you love today.

00:33:29.863 --> 00:33:37.543

<v SPEAKER_3>Red For Revolution was created, written and directed by Jana Naomi Smith, with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:33:37.543 --> 00:33:41.503

<v SPEAKER_3>Hall and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:33:41.503 --> 00:33:50.903

<v SPEAKER_3>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith, and Meta Mana Media and produced by Liz McBee.

00:33:50.903 --> 00:34:01.343

<v SPEAKER_3>This episode featured performances from Jordan Hull as Jazmine James, Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, Present Day, S.

00:34:01.343 --> 00:34:35.023

<v SPEAKER_3>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, Present Day, Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali in the 1970s, Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni in the 1970s, Karo Guzman as Adrienne, Mark Thompson as William Davis, Matthew Quitney as Reporter, Will Kachi as the Rally Volunteer, Miles Agee as the Announcer, and this is Adrienne Murray Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:34:35.023 --> 00:34:40.183

<v SPEAKER_3>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrienne Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:34:40.183 --> 00:34:41.943

<v SPEAKER_3>Williams.

00:34:41.943 --> 00:34:50.803

<v SPEAKER_7>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the Managing Producer, Audrey Mardavich is the Executive Producer.

00:34:50.803 --> 00:35:01.143

<v SPEAKER_7>Red For Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited-run, artist-owned series from new and original voices.

00:35:01.143 --> 00:35:05.803

<v SPEAKER_7>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:35:06.323 --> 00:35:09.183

<v SPEAKER_3>Our Red For Revolution Band includes Tammy L.

00:35:09.183 --> 00:35:22.963

<v SPEAKER_3>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute, and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:35:22.963 --> 00:35:26.823

<v SPEAKER_3>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:35:26.823 --> 00:35:30.183

<v SPEAKER_3>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:35:30.183 --> 00:35:36.983

<v SPEAKER_3>The music featured in this episode includes Revolution, original composition by Tammy L.

00:35:36.983 --> 00:35:39.583

<v SPEAKER_3>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:35:39.583 --> 00:35:43.703

<v SPEAKER_3>Performed by Renée Wilson and the Red For Revolution Band.

00:35:43.703 --> 00:35:53.223

<v SPEAKER_3>Prove It On Me, written by Ma Rainey, hummed by Rutina Wesley and Renée Wilson, courtesy of Spike Driver Music.

00:35:53.223 --> 00:36:03.103

<v SPEAKER_3>I've Got a Crush On You, written by George and Ira Gershwin, performed by Loretta Devine and Renée Wilson, courtesy of Warner Chappell Music Incorporated.

00:36:03.883 --> 00:36:09.783

<v SPEAKER_3>The team behind Red For Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:36:09.783 --> 00:36:16.103

<v SPEAKER_3>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforevolution.com.

00:36:17.183 --> 00:36:20.603

<v SPEAKER_3>This has been your sonic goddess, Adrienne Marie Brau.

00:36:20.603 --> 00:36:22.043

<v SPEAKER_3>Thank you for listening.

00:36:26.123 --> 00:36:28.183

<v SPEAKER_5>Radiotopia from PRX.

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:05.780

<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

00:00:07.180 --> 00:00:12.460

<v SPEAKER_2>Can people really change for the better in life, in love, and in relationships?

00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:18.680

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm Meredith Goldstein, longtime advice columnist at the Boston Globe and host of its podcast, Love Letters.

00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:23.500

<v SPEAKER_2>In season 10 of Love Letters, we're asking one big question, can people change?

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.480

<v SPEAKER_2>And if so, how?

00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:33.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Get ready to laugh, cry, and learn as guests tell real stories about resilience, transformation, and being better at being together.

00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:38.000

<v SPEAKER_2>Listen or watch the new season of Love Letters wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.920

<v SPEAKER_3>This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:44.880

<v SPEAKER_3>Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash?

00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:49.360

<v SPEAKER_3>Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies.

00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:51.220

<v SPEAKER_3>Try it at progressive.com.

00:00:51.220 --> 00:00:53.500

<v SPEAKER_3>Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:56.180

<v SPEAKER_3>Potential savings will vary, not available in all states.

00:00:57.480 --> 00:01:00.060

<v SPEAKER_4>Revolution is a serious thing.

00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:05.900

<v SPEAKER_4>When one commits oneself to the struggle, it must be for a lifetime.

00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:06.960

<v SPEAKER_4>Angela Y.

00:01:06.960 --> 00:01:08.740

<v SPEAKER_4>Davis.

00:01:08.740 --> 00:01:15.080

<v SPEAKER_4>This is Adrienne Marie Brown, and you are listening to Red for Revolution, the audio drama.

00:01:15.080 --> 00:01:21.740

<v SPEAKER_4>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

00:01:21.740 --> 00:01:28.140

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode contains adult content and features references to domestic violence.

00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:30.820

<v SPEAKER_4>Listener discretion advised.

00:01:30.820 --> 00:01:35.040

<v SPEAKER_4>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

00:01:37.660 --> 00:01:45.600

<v SPEAKER_4>On the last episode of Red for Revolution, Jazmine took her grandmother's advice and opened up to her first crush.

00:01:45.600 --> 00:01:57.080

<v SPEAKER_4>While in 1971, Ella Ali and Lorraine Giovanni meet for the first time in Gary, Indiana and commenced their fiery love story.

00:01:57.080 --> 00:02:02.220

<v SPEAKER_4>But tension from their shared past tempered their flame.

00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:05.600

<v SPEAKER_4>Our story of love and liberation continues.

00:02:13.324 --> 00:02:15.364

<v SPEAKER_5>Why isn't the Zoom recorder working?

00:02:17.184 --> 00:02:18.324

<v SPEAKER_5>Oh, I'm so dumb.

00:02:18.324 --> 00:02:20.124

<v SPEAKER_5>Okay, I didn't press record.

00:02:20.124 --> 00:02:22.044

<v SPEAKER_5>Okay, got it.

00:02:22.044 --> 00:02:23.484

<v SPEAKER_5>We're all good.

00:02:23.484 --> 00:02:33.544

<v SPEAKER_5>So, my grandmother and I have been going through her old stuff, and she just has boxes and boxes full of memorabilia, and we found a lot of her old photos.

00:02:33.544 --> 00:02:38.864

<v SPEAKER_5>And may I just say, the 70s must have been a great time.

00:02:38.864 --> 00:02:51.264

<v SPEAKER_5>I mean, despite all the tragedy that was going on, everyone looks so happy in those photos, and I'm just in awe in how they were able to find joy in the midst of it all.

00:02:51.264 --> 00:02:57.164

<v SPEAKER_5>But the most fascinating thing that I found is my grandmother's journal.

00:02:57.164 --> 00:03:03.524

<v SPEAKER_5>It's like she doesn't want to revisit them whatsoever, but she's giving me her blessing to read them, which is nice.

00:03:03.524 --> 00:03:07.504

<v SPEAKER_5>And I mean, the only problem is, is that her handwriting is awful.

00:03:08.204 --> 00:03:11.164

<v SPEAKER_5>It's just, I can't, it's hard to read.

00:03:11.164 --> 00:03:15.204

<v SPEAKER_5>So, I mean, my grandmother, Ella, is good at most things.

00:03:15.204 --> 00:03:19.384

<v SPEAKER_5>So it's nice to know that she has like one Achilles heel.

00:03:19.384 --> 00:03:21.564

<v SPEAKER_5>But it is very, very hard for me to read.

00:03:21.564 --> 00:03:25.304

<v SPEAKER_5>So I will try my best to make out her writings.

00:03:25.304 --> 00:03:35.004

<v SPEAKER_5>In the summer of 1971, my grandma wrote, I would have never imagined Joanne and Lorraine together.

00:03:35.004 --> 00:03:38.344

<v SPEAKER_5>I guess this all proves you don't really know a person.

00:03:38.344 --> 00:03:44.804

<v SPEAKER_5>I thought I really knew Joanne and I thought she knew me, wanted me, even loved me.

00:03:44.804 --> 00:03:47.244

<v SPEAKER_5>I suppose none of that was true.

00:03:47.244 --> 00:03:52.684

<v SPEAKER_5>I played Lorraine's records around Joanne often and she never said a thing.

00:03:52.684 --> 00:03:54.264

<v SPEAKER_5>I can't blame her.

00:03:54.264 --> 00:03:58.564

<v SPEAKER_5>How could she not fall for the First Lady of Love Songs, Sweet Lorraine?

00:03:58.564 --> 00:04:00.244

<v SPEAKER_5>I don't know how she got that nickname.

00:04:00.244 --> 00:04:02.504

<v SPEAKER_5>She's surely more sour than sweet.

00:04:03.684 --> 00:04:06.904

<v SPEAKER_5>I haven't been able to stop thinking about her no matter how hard I try.

00:04:08.264 --> 00:04:12.224

<v SPEAKER_5>If I'm going to get any rest, I must do something about this.

00:04:12.224 --> 00:04:15.564

<v SPEAKER_5>How does one stop the heart from wanting what it wants?

00:04:15.564 --> 00:04:20.824

<v SPEAKER_5>If Jo never figured out the answer to this question, what makes me think I will?

00:04:24.644 --> 00:04:27.584

<v SPEAKER_6>Jaz, I'm only free for about an hour today.

00:04:27.584 --> 00:04:32.284

<v SPEAKER_6>I'm teaching a class at four, so don't let me go on any long tangents.

00:04:32.764 --> 00:04:34.584

<v SPEAKER_7>Uh, I won't.

00:04:34.584 --> 00:04:35.524

<v SPEAKER_6>Okay.

00:04:35.524 --> 00:04:37.124

<v SPEAKER_5>And we are recording.

00:04:37.124 --> 00:04:42.064

<v SPEAKER_6>Uh, can you remind me of what I was talking about?

00:04:42.064 --> 00:04:53.184

<v SPEAKER_5>For a second, it seemed like you and Lorraine were about to run off into the sunset, but then you found out Joanne was, um, messy, so you ran away from the sun.

00:04:53.184 --> 00:04:55.944

<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, I got to running like Flojo.

00:04:55.944 --> 00:04:59.404

<v SPEAKER_6>I did not want to have my heart broken again.

00:04:59.404 --> 00:05:00.184

<v SPEAKER_5>Did you regret it?

00:05:01.104 --> 00:05:02.744

<v SPEAKER_6>Not at the time.

00:05:02.744 --> 00:05:07.324

<v SPEAKER_5>But you had to think about Lorraine, no?

00:05:07.324 --> 00:05:11.044

<v SPEAKER_6>It would be dishonest of me to say I didn't think about her.

00:05:11.044 --> 00:05:23.764

<v SPEAKER_6>It was my hope that she'd call or write me, and I think with every day that went by that she didn't reach out, I started to resent her for it.

00:05:23.764 --> 00:05:28.424

<v SPEAKER_5>But weren't you the one who sort of dramatically exited the situation?

00:05:29.164 --> 00:05:32.364

<v SPEAKER_5>Lorraine was probably waiting for you to reach out first.

00:05:32.364 --> 00:05:33.904

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, I doubt that.

00:05:33.904 --> 00:05:38.524

<v SPEAKER_6>Lorraine never waited around for anybody.

00:05:38.524 --> 00:05:45.004

<v SPEAKER_6>But you see why I told you to go on and tell your friend how you feel about her?

00:05:45.224 --> 00:05:50.764

<v SPEAKER_6>The waiting and guessing that we all do, it doesn't get you anywhere.

00:05:50.764 --> 00:05:51.184

<v SPEAKER_6>Okay.

00:05:51.184 --> 00:05:52.984

<v SPEAKER_5>Well, whatever you say.

00:05:52.984 --> 00:05:54.944

<v SPEAKER_6>It's not what I say, baby.

00:05:54.944 --> 00:05:55.904

<v SPEAKER_6>It's what I know.

00:05:57.584 --> 00:06:00.444

<v SPEAKER_8>No.

00:06:00.444 --> 00:06:04.644

<v SPEAKER_8>I did not sit around waiting for Ella to call me.

00:06:04.644 --> 00:06:15.524

<v SPEAKER_8>I really didn't think she'd ever want to see me again, which was unfortunate because after we left Gary, I couldn't get Ella off my mind.

00:06:15.584 --> 00:06:17.144

<v SPEAKER_8>She ain't know this.

00:06:17.144 --> 00:06:18.044

<v SPEAKER_8>No one did.

00:06:18.044 --> 00:06:22.604

<v SPEAKER_8>But I wrote a record worth of songs about her when I got back to LA.

00:08:57.442 --> 00:08:58.082

<v SPEAKER_10>You wrote this?

00:09:00.412 --> 00:09:02.812

<v SPEAKER_6>Yes.

00:09:02.812 --> 00:09:04.152

<v SPEAKER_10>About me?

00:09:05.192 --> 00:09:08.072

<v SPEAKER_11>Who else would it be about Sean?

00:09:08.072 --> 00:09:09.152

<v SPEAKER_11>You like it?

00:09:09.152 --> 00:09:10.472

<v SPEAKER_10>I love it.

00:09:10.472 --> 00:09:12.112

<v SPEAKER_10>Just as much as you love me.

00:09:12.112 --> 00:09:13.372

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't know what came over me.

00:09:13.612 --> 00:09:16.152

<v SPEAKER_11>I just got inspired to write all of a sudden.

00:09:18.612 --> 00:09:20.572

<v SPEAKER_10>You know what came over you.

00:09:20.572 --> 00:09:22.412

<v SPEAKER_10>And I can do it again.

00:09:22.412 --> 00:09:24.912

<v SPEAKER_10>Right here on this piano.

00:09:26.492 --> 00:09:27.852

<v SPEAKER_11>You know the rule.

00:09:27.852 --> 00:09:29.892

<v SPEAKER_11>No fucking on my baby.

00:09:29.892 --> 00:09:31.832

<v SPEAKER_11>This here is a special piano.

00:09:31.832 --> 00:09:34.732

<v SPEAKER_11>Legends have touched these keys.

00:09:34.732 --> 00:09:37.492

<v SPEAKER_10>And they all probably fucked on it too.

00:09:37.492 --> 00:09:39.752

<v SPEAKER_11>You're lucky you have some sense sometimes.

00:09:39.752 --> 00:09:42.172

<v SPEAKER_11>Otherwise I don't know what the hell I'd do with you.

00:09:42.172 --> 00:09:42.912

<v SPEAKER_10>You know you love me.

00:09:43.832 --> 00:09:46.112

<v SPEAKER_10>I got you writing all these love songs.

00:09:46.112 --> 00:09:48.332

<v SPEAKER_11>It's a good thing I'm in the writing mood.

00:09:48.332 --> 00:09:50.832

<v SPEAKER_11>Look, we ain't gotta keep looking for writers.

00:09:50.832 --> 00:09:53.872

<v SPEAKER_11>I can just go ahead and finish up this record.

00:09:53.872 --> 00:09:55.572

<v SPEAKER_10>I found a writer.

00:09:55.572 --> 00:09:58.372

<v SPEAKER_10>He just finished a record with Derinda Rivers.

00:09:58.372 --> 00:10:00.052

<v SPEAKER_11>She don't sing jazz.

00:10:00.052 --> 00:10:01.272

<v SPEAKER_10>Calm down.

00:10:01.272 --> 00:10:03.532

<v SPEAKER_10>We're expanded, remember?

00:10:03.532 --> 00:10:07.472

<v SPEAKER_10>You can't keep singing the same old songs you've been singing.

00:10:07.472 --> 00:10:10.132

<v SPEAKER_10>Not if you want to be bigger than Derinda.

00:10:10.132 --> 00:10:11.892

<v SPEAKER_11>What about all the songs I just wrote?

00:10:12.232 --> 00:10:14.172

<v SPEAKER_11>The one you love so much?

00:10:16.332 --> 00:10:18.232

<v SPEAKER_10>You can sing it at our wedding.

00:10:21.332 --> 00:10:23.092

<v SPEAKER_10>This time we start planning that.

00:10:23.092 --> 00:10:25.252

<v SPEAKER_11>We've been too busy to even pick a date.

00:10:25.252 --> 00:10:27.352

<v SPEAKER_10>I say we get married this fall.

00:10:27.352 --> 00:10:29.292

<v SPEAKER_11>That's just around the corner.

00:10:29.292 --> 00:10:31.832

<v SPEAKER_11>We should just do it next summer.

00:10:31.832 --> 00:10:33.992

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't want to wear a suit in the heat.

00:10:33.992 --> 00:10:36.832

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, I can't plan a proper wedding before the fall.

00:10:36.832 --> 00:10:38.972

<v SPEAKER_10>You gotta figure it out.

00:10:38.972 --> 00:10:41.232

<v SPEAKER_10>We're gonna be even busier once you go back on tour.

00:10:41.972 --> 00:10:45.632

<v SPEAKER_10>You sure as hell won't be able to plan it on the road.

00:10:45.632 --> 00:10:47.652

<v SPEAKER_10>Unless...

00:10:47.652 --> 00:10:50.552

<v SPEAKER_10>Unless you don't mind just going down to the courthouse.

00:10:52.092 --> 00:10:54.112

<v SPEAKER_10>We could even do that this weekend.

00:10:56.212 --> 00:10:57.872

<v SPEAKER_10>Ah, forget that.

00:10:57.872 --> 00:11:00.132

<v SPEAKER_10>I forgot, I booked you for this show in New York.

00:11:00.132 --> 00:11:02.692

<v SPEAKER_11>I was gonna say you getting ahead of yourself.

00:11:02.692 --> 00:11:06.372

<v SPEAKER_10>I need you to go to New York to tape an episode of Black Dreams.

00:11:06.432 --> 00:11:09.432

<v SPEAKER_10>Abbey Lincoln dropped out and they need someone to fill a spot.

00:11:09.432 --> 00:11:12.132

<v SPEAKER_10>My buddy asked me if you could do it.

00:11:12.132 --> 00:11:13.852

<v SPEAKER_10>You know how I feel about political shit.

00:11:13.852 --> 00:11:16.612

<v SPEAKER_10>I normally wouldn't ask you to do this type of gig.

00:11:16.612 --> 00:11:18.632

<v SPEAKER_10>But...

00:11:18.632 --> 00:11:19.932

<v SPEAKER_10>I owe this cat.

00:11:19.932 --> 00:11:22.312

<v SPEAKER_11>What does that have to do with me, Sean?

00:11:22.312 --> 00:11:22.932

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, damn it.

00:11:22.932 --> 00:11:26.472

<v SPEAKER_10>I can't drag you on to the show and make you sing for nobody.

00:11:26.472 --> 00:11:28.592

<v SPEAKER_10>You either gonna do it or you don't do it.

00:11:28.592 --> 00:11:31.492

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, it don't seem like you're asking me.

00:11:31.492 --> 00:11:33.312

<v SPEAKER_11>It sounds like a demand.

00:11:33.312 --> 00:11:36.552

<v SPEAKER_10>Ain't no point in talking about this right now if you're not gonna do the show.

00:11:36.552 --> 00:11:38.412

<v SPEAKER_11>I didn't say I wasn't.

00:11:38.412 --> 00:11:41.252

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm just saying you never asked a question.

00:11:41.252 --> 00:11:44.032

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, they don't just want you to sing.

00:11:44.032 --> 00:11:47.752

<v SPEAKER_10>They want you to do an interview with one of them radicals.

00:11:48.892 --> 00:11:50.992

<v SPEAKER_10>I can't remember a name.

00:11:50.992 --> 00:11:51.852

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't know.

00:11:51.852 --> 00:11:55.252

<v SPEAKER_10>They just need someone to take Abby's spot.

00:11:55.252 --> 00:11:59.772

<v SPEAKER_10>So you gonna do it or am I gonna have to pay this nigga?

00:11:59.772 --> 00:12:01.612

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm so sick of your shit, Sean.

00:12:01.612 --> 00:12:02.592

<v SPEAKER_10>Come on, you know you love me.

00:12:03.272 --> 00:12:04.832

<v SPEAKER_10>Just do it one more time.

00:12:07.212 --> 00:12:09.772

<v SPEAKER_10>Lorraine, am I gonna have to do it?

00:12:09.772 --> 00:12:10.992

<v SPEAKER_11>Do what?

00:12:10.992 --> 00:12:12.992

<v SPEAKER_10>Come on, you don't want me to get up there.

00:12:12.992 --> 00:12:14.552

<v SPEAKER_11>You can't sing for shit.

00:12:14.552 --> 00:12:17.352

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, that's where you come into play.

00:12:17.352 --> 00:12:18.772

<v SPEAKER_11>You know what?

00:12:18.772 --> 00:12:20.252

<v SPEAKER_11>Fine.

00:12:20.252 --> 00:12:20.992

<v SPEAKER_11>Fine, I'll do it.

00:12:27.628 --> 00:12:29.488

<v SPEAKER_6>The Patriarchy.

00:12:29.488 --> 00:12:33.028

<v SPEAKER_6>You sure you want to get me started on the patriarchy?

00:12:33.028 --> 00:12:37.028

<v SPEAKER_5>Okay, I'll let you save the lecture on the patriarchy for your students.

00:12:37.028 --> 00:12:45.268

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, when I wasn't waiting by the phone for Lorraine to call me, that's what I was trying to dismantle.

00:12:47.808 --> 00:12:49.748

<v SPEAKER_12>Kathy, it's me.

00:12:49.748 --> 00:12:54.508

<v SPEAKER_12>You know, if we're late, Leroy will never let us hear the end of it.

00:12:54.568 --> 00:12:56.168

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh.

00:12:56.168 --> 00:12:57.288

<v SPEAKER_12>Hi, Joe.

00:12:57.288 --> 00:12:59.028

<v SPEAKER_12>I'm here to pick up Kathy.

00:12:59.028 --> 00:13:00.448

<v SPEAKER_13>She's busy.

00:13:02.508 --> 00:13:04.168

<v SPEAKER_12>I can see her, Joe.

00:13:04.168 --> 00:13:06.108

<v SPEAKER_13>And you see she's busy.

00:13:06.108 --> 00:13:08.288

<v SPEAKER_12>Hey, hey, hey, Kathy.

00:13:08.288 --> 00:13:09.068

<v SPEAKER_12>How are you?

00:13:09.068 --> 00:13:10.328

<v SPEAKER_9>She's fine.

00:13:10.328 --> 00:13:12.488

<v SPEAKER_12>Are you ready to head out?

00:13:12.488 --> 00:13:13.568

<v SPEAKER_7>I can't.

00:13:13.568 --> 00:13:16.368

<v SPEAKER_13>I don't want her hanging around with you and your friends.

00:13:16.368 --> 00:13:18.548

<v SPEAKER_13>You saw what happened to Joanne.

00:13:18.548 --> 00:13:21.348

<v SPEAKER_13>I don't want Kathy getting hurt fooling around with you cats.

00:13:21.348 --> 00:13:22.648

<v SPEAKER_12>You don't want her getting hurt.

00:13:23.028 --> 00:13:23.428

<v SPEAKER_12>Okay.

00:13:24.028 --> 00:13:25.108

<v SPEAKER_5>I'll call you sometime, Ella.

00:13:32.017 --> 00:13:33.977

<v SPEAKER_7>Who was Kathy?

00:13:33.977 --> 00:13:35.397

<v SPEAKER_6>She was my friend.

00:13:35.397 --> 00:13:38.497

<v SPEAKER_6>She was in the movement briefly.

00:13:38.497 --> 00:13:41.177

<v SPEAKER_6>We became good friends.

00:13:41.177 --> 00:13:46.657

<v SPEAKER_6>She was my partner in crime, or in the revolution, I should say.

00:13:46.657 --> 00:13:52.477

<v SPEAKER_6>Me, LeRoy, Joe and Kathy, we were always trying to shake things up.

00:13:52.477 --> 00:14:01.517

<v SPEAKER_6>And then Joanne passed, and Kathy, now, Kathy fell in love.

00:14:09.634 --> 00:14:14.374

<v SPEAKER_13>You're late, if I don't make you run laps, your comrades will never let me hit ends of it.

00:14:14.374 --> 00:14:16.174

<v SPEAKER_12>I'm not running laps, LeRoy.

00:14:17.914 --> 00:14:20.194

<v SPEAKER_13>Oh, something's got you upset today.

00:14:20.194 --> 00:14:22.694

<v SPEAKER_12>Can you hand me those gloves, please?

00:14:22.694 --> 00:14:22.914

<v SPEAKER_13>Yeah.

00:14:30.618 --> 00:14:33.378

<v SPEAKER_13>What the white folks done now?

00:14:33.378 --> 00:14:42.578

<v SPEAKER_12>We teach folks how to box, use these guns, we do all this shit to defend ourselves against violence.

00:14:42.578 --> 00:14:49.498

<v SPEAKER_12>And so many sisters, your sisters here, go home, and are abused by their men.

00:14:49.498 --> 00:14:51.398

<v SPEAKER_8>We have to address this, LeRoy.

00:14:51.398 --> 00:14:52.878

<v SPEAKER_13>What do you think we're doing?

00:14:52.878 --> 00:14:56.058

<v SPEAKER_13>You're learning all you need to know to defend yourself right now.

00:14:56.058 --> 00:14:58.858

<v SPEAKER_12>We can't control what white people do to us, or anybody, really.

00:14:59.518 --> 00:15:03.498

<v SPEAKER_12>We can't reason with racists, so we have to protect ourselves.

00:15:03.498 --> 00:15:10.978

<v SPEAKER_12>There is no good reason, Kathy, or any woman should have to defend herself in her own goddamn house.

00:15:10.978 --> 00:15:13.538

<v SPEAKER_13>I'm not saying it's right.

00:15:13.538 --> 00:15:16.218

<v SPEAKER_13>You gotta understand what these cats are facing.

00:15:18.078 --> 00:15:20.218

<v SPEAKER_13>It's not personal.

00:15:20.218 --> 00:15:22.898

<v SPEAKER_13>They're carrying a lot of weight, is all.

00:15:22.898 --> 00:15:30.578

<v SPEAKER_12>Sounds like you need to rally your comrades and collectively figure out where you're going to lay that weight down.

00:15:30.578 --> 00:15:35.498

<v SPEAKER_12>Because I'll be damned if I have to tend to another woman's bruises, LeRoy.

00:15:35.498 --> 00:15:36.518

<v SPEAKER_13>Careful, alright?

00:15:36.518 --> 00:15:38.378

<v SPEAKER_13>You're gonna exhaust yourself.

00:15:39.538 --> 00:15:40.338

<v SPEAKER_12>I can keep going.

00:15:40.338 --> 00:15:42.858

<v SPEAKER_13>Take a walk, Ella.

00:15:42.858 --> 00:15:45.298

<v SPEAKER_13>And I hear you.

00:15:45.298 --> 00:15:46.378

<v SPEAKER_13>I'll talk to Joe.

00:15:46.378 --> 00:15:48.558

<v SPEAKER_12>No, you'll talk to everyone.

00:15:57.318 --> 00:15:58.318

<v SPEAKER_10>Woo-hoo!

00:15:58.318 --> 00:16:01.438

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, thank God he gave you the ass and the titties for the pictures.

00:16:01.438 --> 00:16:03.798

<v SPEAKER_10>Ooh, MGM loves you.

00:16:03.798 --> 00:16:05.998

<v SPEAKER_10>They want you to come back and audition again.

00:16:05.998 --> 00:16:10.918

<v SPEAKER_11>My ass is not about to parade around those creeps who called themselves executives.

00:16:10.918 --> 00:16:12.238

<v SPEAKER_11>Not one more again.

00:16:12.238 --> 00:16:14.398

<v SPEAKER_10>They just want you to sing for them this time.

00:16:14.398 --> 00:16:19.558

<v SPEAKER_11>Then they can go on across the street, to the record store, and buy a record.

00:16:19.558 --> 00:16:23.918

<v SPEAKER_11>They can buy every record I've ever made if that's what they need to do.

00:16:23.918 --> 00:16:25.338

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm not going back in there.

00:16:25.798 --> 00:16:30.058

<v SPEAKER_11>If I gotta keep kicking dicks in the dick, ain't nobody gonna want me in their picture.

00:16:30.058 --> 00:16:31.538

<v SPEAKER_11>And you don't want that, do you?

00:16:31.538 --> 00:16:32.478

<v SPEAKER_10>Lorraine.

00:16:32.478 --> 00:16:35.718

<v SPEAKER_11>And I'm not about to beg nobody to play a whore.

00:16:35.718 --> 00:16:37.178

<v SPEAKER_11>The fuck they think I am?

00:16:37.178 --> 00:16:38.098

<v SPEAKER_10>Baby.

00:16:38.098 --> 00:16:39.718

<v SPEAKER_10>Baby, calm down.

00:16:41.958 --> 00:16:43.918

<v SPEAKER_11>You're not gonna fuck me into going back either.

00:16:44.198 --> 00:16:44.658

<v SPEAKER_10>Mm-hmm.

00:16:44.658 --> 00:16:45.558

<v SPEAKER_10>We'll see about that.

00:16:53.739 --> 00:16:54.299

<v SPEAKER_11>Don't kiss me.

00:17:11.252 --> 00:17:14.752

<v SPEAKER_9>Ella, you'll sit on this side, and then we'll have Lorraine come out.

00:17:14.752 --> 00:17:17.952

<v SPEAKER_12>Lorraine, don't you mean Abby Lincoln?

00:17:17.952 --> 00:17:21.112

<v SPEAKER_9>No, Lorraine Giovanni, the singer.

00:17:21.112 --> 00:17:27.712

<v SPEAKER_9>She sings that song, My Love Ain't No Play Thang.

00:17:27.712 --> 00:17:28.952

<v SPEAKER_15>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

00:17:29.612 --> 00:17:34.472

<v SPEAKER_12>I know of Lorraine, and I didn't exactly prep for a conversation with her.

00:17:34.472 --> 00:17:38.812

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, thank you for joining us on such short notice.

00:17:38.812 --> 00:17:40.552

<v SPEAKER_11>It's my pleasure, dear.

00:17:40.552 --> 00:17:42.692

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, this is Ella.

00:17:42.692 --> 00:17:45.112

<v SPEAKER_11>Ali, I know.

00:17:45.112 --> 00:17:47.912

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, we're gonna have you sit right here across from Ella.

00:17:47.912 --> 00:17:48.752

<v SPEAKER_9>Let me get you your mic.

00:17:51.992 --> 00:17:53.252

<v SPEAKER_11>Hello, darling.

00:17:54.872 --> 00:17:57.112

<v SPEAKER_11>Miss Intellectual don't got nothing to say?

00:17:57.112 --> 00:17:59.172

<v SPEAKER_12>I'm sorry.

00:17:59.352 --> 00:18:01.132

<v SPEAKER_12>I just...

00:18:01.132 --> 00:18:04.312

<v SPEAKER_11>I take it you didn't know I was doing the show.

00:18:04.312 --> 00:18:07.472

<v SPEAKER_11>You probably wouldn't have agreed to do this had you known.

00:18:07.472 --> 00:18:10.352

<v SPEAKER_12>I might have done something else with my tag.

00:18:10.352 --> 00:18:12.612

<v SPEAKER_11>I should have known you wouldn't want to see me.

00:18:12.612 --> 00:18:14.492

<v SPEAKER_12>I wouldn't say that.

00:18:14.492 --> 00:18:15.432

<v SPEAKER_11>You wouldn't?

00:18:15.432 --> 00:18:17.092

<v SPEAKER_12>Not if I knew you wanted to see me.

00:18:18.732 --> 00:18:23.492

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, doing this gig wasn't exactly my choice.

00:18:23.492 --> 00:18:27.652

<v SPEAKER_11>It's not like I jumped at the opportunity to be ridiculed by you again.

00:18:27.652 --> 00:18:29.872

<v SPEAKER_12>I might actually owe you an apology.

00:18:31.412 --> 00:18:35.312

<v SPEAKER_12>I think I took my anger with Joanne out on you.

00:18:35.312 --> 00:18:39.512

<v SPEAKER_12>I didn't think it was fair to be upset with her.

00:18:39.512 --> 00:18:41.752

<v SPEAKER_12>I suppose it wasn't fair to be angry with you either.

00:18:44.312 --> 00:18:53.192

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm still mad at Joanne for spilling Hennessy on the first dress I ever bought for myself, so I think it's okay to be mad at folks, even the dead.

00:18:55.532 --> 00:18:57.912

<v SPEAKER_11>It don't mean you didn't love Joanne.

00:18:57.912 --> 00:19:02.312

<v SPEAKER_11>It just means y'all gonna have some things to work out in heaven.

00:19:02.312 --> 00:19:05.112

<v SPEAKER_9>All right, everyone, quiet on set, quiet on set.

00:19:05.112 --> 00:19:06.732

<v SPEAKER_9>We're gonna go ahead and get started.

00:19:06.732 --> 00:19:08.612

<v SPEAKER_9>Sound and camera are rolling.

00:19:10.832 --> 00:19:11.712

<v SPEAKER_14>Good evening.

00:19:11.712 --> 00:19:20.572

<v SPEAKER_14>Tonight on Black Dreams, we are happy to have Ella Ali and Lorraine Giovanni join our program for a night of music and conversation.

00:19:24.912 --> 00:19:29.472

<v SPEAKER_12>I can't believe I'm talking to one of the most famous singers in the world.

00:19:29.672 --> 00:19:33.232

<v SPEAKER_12>It's amazing how you've become so revered.

00:19:33.232 --> 00:19:34.552

<v SPEAKER_12>Why do you think that is?

00:19:34.552 --> 00:19:37.112

<v SPEAKER_11>I suppose it has something to do with my look.

00:19:37.972 --> 00:19:46.152

<v SPEAKER_11>For some reason, the white folk who get to decide the songs that go on the radio and the people that get to be in the pictures picked me.

00:19:46.152 --> 00:19:50.172

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm just the right shape, not quite the right color.

00:19:50.172 --> 00:19:53.912

<v SPEAKER_11>But for the most part, people make their peace with me.

00:19:53.912 --> 00:19:56.672

<v SPEAKER_11>Some even buy my records.

00:19:56.672 --> 00:19:59.772

<v SPEAKER_12>Well, give yourself more credit than that, Lorraine.

00:19:59.772 --> 00:20:03.432

<v SPEAKER_12>You have a presence and voice that's like no other.

00:20:03.432 --> 00:20:05.312

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, I don't hear what you all hear.

00:20:06.132 --> 00:20:09.792

<v SPEAKER_11>To me, I sound like a dying bird.

00:20:09.792 --> 00:20:14.272

<v SPEAKER_12>What do you think millions of people buy your records and go to your shows?

00:20:14.272 --> 00:20:20.292

<v SPEAKER_12>You're a Black woman that people listen to that must feel wonderful, doesn't it?

00:20:20.292 --> 00:20:23.952

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't always feel like people are listening to me.

00:20:23.952 --> 00:20:27.232

<v SPEAKER_11>I think that question should be directed to you.

00:20:27.232 --> 00:20:32.312

<v SPEAKER_11>You're a Black woman with a lot to say and a whole lot of people listen to you.

00:20:32.312 --> 00:20:33.072

<v SPEAKER_11>Ain't it wonderful?

00:20:36.312 --> 00:20:39.812

<v SPEAKER_12>I don't always feel like people are listening to me, either.

00:20:39.812 --> 00:20:41.592

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, they're listening.

00:20:41.592 --> 00:20:43.212

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm listening.

00:20:43.212 --> 00:20:44.812

<v SPEAKER_11>I can tell you.

00:20:44.812 --> 00:20:52.672

<v SPEAKER_11>I was not thinking about all the injustice with our people, not in a way that mattered until I heard you speak.

00:20:52.692 --> 00:20:57.752

<v SPEAKER_12>And I don't think I knew what love sounded like till I heard your voice.

00:20:59.432 --> 00:21:00.812

<v SPEAKER_7>Cut!

00:21:00.812 --> 00:21:04.592

<v SPEAKER_9>I think that's a perfect segue into your performance, number Lorraine.

00:21:04.592 --> 00:21:08.372

<v SPEAKER_9>Let's go ahead and un-Mike Lorraine and Ella and get Lorraine set up to sing.

00:21:16.575 --> 00:21:17.375

<v SPEAKER_9>Quiet on set!

00:21:55.333 --> 00:21:55.953

<v SPEAKER_11>Make sure.

00:22:50.950 --> 00:22:51.770

<v SPEAKER_11>It's all right.

00:25:24.499 --> 00:25:26.919

<v SPEAKER_11>You mind helping me unzip my dress?

00:25:26.919 --> 00:25:28.219

<v SPEAKER_12>I don't mind.

00:25:29.899 --> 00:25:33.439

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't know how I keep finding myself sharing a dressing room with you.

00:25:33.699 --> 00:25:41.439

<v SPEAKER_12>It's funny, I have a feeling wherever Joanne is, she has something to do with this.

00:25:41.459 --> 00:25:43.799

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, I'm sure of it.

00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:48.279

<v SPEAKER_11>I forgot my robe this time, so I hope you don't mind.

00:25:49.479 --> 00:25:51.279

<v SPEAKER_12>I've already seen you naked.

00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:52.439

<v SPEAKER_11>I thought you might have forgotten.

00:25:54.459 --> 00:25:56.099

<v SPEAKER_12>How could I do that?

00:25:56.099 --> 00:25:58.919

<v SPEAKER_11>Did you really mean what you said out there?

00:25:58.919 --> 00:26:00.859

<v SPEAKER_11>About my voice?

00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:02.039

<v SPEAKER_11>My songs?

00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.699

<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:26:04.699 --> 00:26:12.499

<v SPEAKER_12>I don't know who you're singing to, but whatever love you're singing about, I want it for myself.

00:26:24.742 --> 00:26:27.782

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, you should see your face.

00:26:29.482 --> 00:26:30.382

<v SPEAKER_6>Okay.

00:26:30.382 --> 00:26:37.842

<v SPEAKER_5>Other than fornicating in dressing rooms, did you two ever go on dates in public?

00:26:37.842 --> 00:26:39.282

<v SPEAKER_2>Of course.

00:26:39.282 --> 00:26:41.062

<v SPEAKER_5>So what was your first date?

00:26:41.062 --> 00:26:49.982

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, what I consider our first date and what Lorraine would consider our first date are very different.

00:26:51.642 --> 00:26:52.882

<v SPEAKER_8>I took her out shopping.

00:26:54.422 --> 00:26:56.162

<v SPEAKER_8>I needed to get a dress.

00:26:56.162 --> 00:27:02.262

<v SPEAKER_8>You see Ella hated shopping and she especially hated the type of dresses I was looking for.

00:27:08.188 --> 00:27:10.428

<v SPEAKER_11>And darling, close your mouth.

00:27:10.428 --> 00:27:14.888

<v SPEAKER_7>How can I help you, Lorraine Giovanni?

00:27:14.888 --> 00:27:16.048

<v SPEAKER_11>It's okay, dear.

00:27:16.048 --> 00:27:18.588

<v SPEAKER_11>We both know who I am.

00:27:18.588 --> 00:27:20.888

<v SPEAKER_11>We wanted to look at your dresses.

00:27:20.888 --> 00:27:22.928

<v SPEAKER_7>Those on the third floor.

00:27:22.928 --> 00:27:24.568

<v SPEAKER_12>Are you from Haiti?

00:27:24.568 --> 00:27:26.548

<v SPEAKER_12>I noticed the pen on your blouse.

00:27:26.548 --> 00:27:27.708

<v SPEAKER_7>Yes.

00:27:27.708 --> 00:27:29.028

<v SPEAKER_11>Tu parle français?

00:27:29.028 --> 00:27:29.988

<v SPEAKER_11>Oui.

00:27:29.988 --> 00:27:34.308

<v SPEAKER_11>Fablo, you have to show us where they keep their best gowns.

00:27:34.348 --> 00:27:36.148

<v SPEAKER_7>It will be my pleasure.

00:27:36.148 --> 00:27:36.668

<v SPEAKER_7>Right this way.

00:28:00.889 --> 00:28:03.669

<v SPEAKER_7>Our finest dresses are in the room to the left.

00:28:03.669 --> 00:28:07.969

<v SPEAKER_7>Now, I should probably get back downstairs before my boss loses her mind.

00:28:07.969 --> 00:28:09.729

<v SPEAKER_12>Merci pour votre aide.

00:28:11.929 --> 00:28:14.269

<v SPEAKER_11>I didn't know you spoke French.

00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:15.549

<v SPEAKER_11>Have you been to Paris?

00:28:15.549 --> 00:28:19.809

<v SPEAKER_12>No, I've never been on an airplane, and I don't speak French.

00:28:19.809 --> 00:28:24.469

<v SPEAKER_12>I've just seen the 400 bulls, I don't know how many times.

00:28:24.469 --> 00:28:28.129

<v SPEAKER_11>Huh, you seem like the well-travel type.

00:28:28.769 --> 00:28:31.169

<v SPEAKER_12>Well, that, I am not.

00:28:31.169 --> 00:28:33.289

<v SPEAKER_11>We're gonna have to change that.

00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:38.289

<v SPEAKER_11>First, we'll get you on a plane, and then we'll have to get you to Paris.

00:28:38.289 --> 00:28:40.289

<v SPEAKER_11>It's my favorite city.

00:28:40.289 --> 00:28:42.329

<v SPEAKER_11>You would love it.

00:28:42.329 --> 00:28:48.989

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, Ella, this red dress right here will show off those legs of yours, darling.

00:28:50.389 --> 00:28:55.869

<v SPEAKER_12>Mmm, my husband would love to see me in something like that.

00:28:55.929 --> 00:28:57.089

<v SPEAKER_11>Your what?

00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:01.809

<v SPEAKER_12>You should see your face.

00:29:01.809 --> 00:29:03.269

<v SPEAKER_11>You're joking.

00:29:03.269 --> 00:29:05.229

<v SPEAKER_8>Of course.

00:29:05.229 --> 00:29:08.669

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella, you can't joke with me like that.

00:29:11.109 --> 00:29:12.709

<v SPEAKER_11>Do you want to get married?

00:29:12.709 --> 00:29:13.849

<v SPEAKER_12>To a man?

00:29:13.849 --> 00:29:14.909

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, yes, hon.

00:29:14.909 --> 00:29:17.109

<v SPEAKER_11>Who else you gonna get married to?

00:29:17.109 --> 00:29:18.229

<v SPEAKER_12>No.

00:29:18.229 --> 00:29:21.949

<v SPEAKER_12>I don't think I'd find that fulfilling.

00:29:21.949 --> 00:29:26.709

<v SPEAKER_11>At some point, folks will start asking why you're not married.

00:29:26.709 --> 00:29:30.449

<v SPEAKER_11>If you just go on and do it, you can put all that to bed.

00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:33.109

<v SPEAKER_12>I couldn't do that.

00:29:33.109 --> 00:29:40.769

<v SPEAKER_12>It wouldn't be fair for the man, and he should be with someone who really wants him.

00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:42.029

<v SPEAKER_11>Fair?

00:29:42.029 --> 00:29:45.869

<v SPEAKER_11>He was gonna run around with every broad in town anyway.

00:29:46.309 --> 00:29:48.489

<v SPEAKER_12>I really couldn't do it.

00:29:48.489 --> 00:29:55.109

<v SPEAKER_11>You can get married to a fellow like you, the kind of fellow who loves, who he's not supposed to love.

00:29:55.109 --> 00:29:57.969

<v SPEAKER_11>I hear they got a lot of fellows like that here in New York.

00:29:57.969 --> 00:29:59.909

<v SPEAKER_12>Why are you trying to marry me off?

00:29:59.909 --> 00:30:04.049

<v SPEAKER_12>And why do you have me in this overpriced store?

00:30:04.049 --> 00:30:06.249

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, I'm looking for a special dress.

00:30:06.249 --> 00:30:07.509

<v SPEAKER_12>What kind?

00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:08.629

<v SPEAKER_11>A white one.

00:30:08.629 --> 00:30:12.529

<v SPEAKER_12>Was this for a particular occasion?

00:30:12.529 --> 00:30:13.369

<v SPEAKER_11>A wedding.

00:30:13.429 --> 00:30:19.469

<v SPEAKER_12>Okay, okay, okay, now, Lorraine, you know it's almost blasphemous to wear white to a wedding, unless you're a-

00:30:19.469 --> 00:30:21.149

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm gonna be a bride.

00:30:28.689 --> 00:30:30.569

<v SPEAKER_12>You're serious?

00:30:30.569 --> 00:30:32.929

<v SPEAKER_11>I wish I were as funny as you.

00:30:32.929 --> 00:30:34.029

<v SPEAKER_12>You're getting married?

00:30:34.029 --> 00:30:35.409

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:30:35.409 --> 00:30:37.249

<v SPEAKER_12>For show or for love?

00:30:37.249 --> 00:30:39.609

<v SPEAKER_11>I can't say it's for show.

00:30:39.609 --> 00:30:40.509

<v SPEAKER_11>Can't say it's for love.

00:30:41.949 --> 00:30:42.429

<v SPEAKER_11>I guess it's...

00:30:43.629 --> 00:30:44.309

<v SPEAKER_11>To keep the peace.

00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.749

<v SPEAKER_11>Or maybe my sanity.

00:30:47.749 --> 00:30:52.289

<v SPEAKER_12>Who is this lucky one you're marrying?

00:30:52.289 --> 00:30:54.109

<v SPEAKER_11>You met him.

00:30:54.109 --> 00:30:55.649

<v SPEAKER_11>Sean.

00:30:55.649 --> 00:30:56.709

<v SPEAKER_12>Your manager?

00:30:56.709 --> 00:30:59.509

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:02.649

<v SPEAKER_11>That expression you got on your face.

00:31:02.649 --> 00:31:04.089

<v SPEAKER_11>What does it mean?

00:31:05.329 --> 00:31:08.869

<v SPEAKER_12>He's just so big.

00:31:08.869 --> 00:31:10.049

<v SPEAKER_12>And I mean his personality.

00:31:10.089 --> 00:31:10.429

<v SPEAKER_11>Okay.

00:31:10.429 --> 00:31:12.689

<v SPEAKER_12>Not his.

00:31:12.689 --> 00:31:15.469

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, that's big too.

00:31:15.469 --> 00:31:16.409

<v SPEAKER_11>He's confident.

00:31:16.409 --> 00:31:17.969

<v SPEAKER_11>I like that.

00:31:17.969 --> 00:31:20.869

<v SPEAKER_11>I act like I know everything, but I don't.

00:31:20.869 --> 00:31:23.489

<v SPEAKER_11>He takes care of my business.

00:31:23.489 --> 00:31:26.309

<v SPEAKER_11>You're doing that thing with your face again.

00:31:26.309 --> 00:31:27.069

<v SPEAKER_12>Sorry.

00:31:27.069 --> 00:31:28.149

<v SPEAKER_11>Don't be.

00:31:28.149 --> 00:31:30.409

<v SPEAKER_11>Just say what you're thinking.

00:31:30.409 --> 00:31:31.509

<v SPEAKER_11>Go on.

00:31:31.509 --> 00:31:37.129

<v SPEAKER_12>You just don't seem like the type to let a man control your money.

00:31:38.929 --> 00:31:42.829

<v SPEAKER_11>You don't make it in this business doing everything by yourself.

00:31:42.829 --> 00:31:47.309

<v SPEAKER_11>If you find a cat who you can halfway trust, you got a hold to him.

00:31:47.309 --> 00:31:48.629

<v SPEAKER_11>Sean's good for me.

00:31:48.629 --> 00:31:50.309

<v SPEAKER_12>Is he good to you?

00:31:50.309 --> 00:31:52.849

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, there he lacks consistency.

00:31:54.069 --> 00:31:55.949

<v SPEAKER_11>But enough about him.

00:31:55.949 --> 00:32:01.029

<v SPEAKER_11>If I think about it too much, I'll end up ruining something that might be a good thing.

00:32:01.029 --> 00:32:02.989

<v SPEAKER_12>Might be a good thing.

00:32:02.989 --> 00:32:05.189

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella, I'm done talking about it.

00:32:06.929 --> 00:32:11.209

<v SPEAKER_11>Now, what do you think about this dress?

00:32:11.209 --> 00:32:13.289

<v SPEAKER_11>The lace is nice, ain't it?

00:32:14.629 --> 00:32:17.429

<v SPEAKER_12>I think you should keep looking for better options.

00:32:20.229 --> 00:32:25.409

<v SPEAKER_5>Yeah, Grandma, I can see why you wouldn't consider that outing a first date.

00:32:25.409 --> 00:32:27.509

<v SPEAKER_6>And then she left me right after.

00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:30.429

<v SPEAKER_6>She had to go back to LA for a show.

00:32:30.429 --> 00:32:37.929

<v SPEAKER_6>And I had all these dresses she bought for me and nowhere to wear them to.

00:32:37.929 --> 00:32:39.929

<v SPEAKER_8>I'll never forget that date.

00:32:39.929 --> 00:32:46.849

<v SPEAKER_8>I know Ella doesn't think it counts, but we did go for ice cream before shopping.

00:32:46.849 --> 00:32:49.369

<v SPEAKER_8>And I eventually made it up to her.

00:32:49.369 --> 00:32:55.589

<v SPEAKER_8>For better or worse, that was the day I started to second-guess the whole marriage thing.

00:32:55.589 --> 00:32:58.069

<v SPEAKER_8>I didn't think twice about it before.

00:33:00.149 --> 00:33:02.549

<v SPEAKER_6>Of course I didn't want Lorraine to marry Sean.

00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:08.089

<v SPEAKER_6>Back then, I really believed she would call it off.

00:33:08.089 --> 00:33:11.689

<v SPEAKER_6>But now as I reflect on our relationship, I think...

00:33:13.289 --> 00:33:18.069

<v SPEAKER_6>I think there was a part of me that always feared she would never leave him.

00:33:18.069 --> 00:33:23.909

<v SPEAKER_6>That's probably why I made it a point to spend so much time with her.

00:33:23.909 --> 00:33:25.419

<v SPEAKER_5>Let me ask...

00:33:25.419 --> 00:33:26.669

<v SPEAKER_14>okay.

00:33:26.669 --> 00:33:29.689

<v SPEAKER_5>Did anyone else know about your relationship?

00:33:29.689 --> 00:33:31.469

<v SPEAKER_6>Your late Uncle LeRoy did.

00:33:33.409 --> 00:33:35.469

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, I do miss him.

00:33:37.629 --> 00:33:39.909

<v SPEAKER_12>LeRoy, I'm on my way out.

00:33:39.909 --> 00:33:41.069

<v SPEAKER_12>Try not to stay too late.

00:33:41.069 --> 00:33:41.849

<v SPEAKER_13>Wait, Ella.

00:33:41.849 --> 00:33:42.509

<v SPEAKER_13>Hey.

00:33:42.509 --> 00:33:44.709

<v SPEAKER_13>I want to talk to you before you leave.

00:33:44.709 --> 00:33:45.669

<v SPEAKER_12>Can you make it quick?

00:33:45.669 --> 00:33:47.629

<v SPEAKER_12>I have somewhere to be tonight.

00:33:47.629 --> 00:33:50.749

<v SPEAKER_13>Somewhere more important than the work we're doing here?

00:33:50.749 --> 00:33:53.129

<v SPEAKER_12>I'd say it's equally important.

00:33:55.309 --> 00:33:59.909

<v SPEAKER_13>Your comrades aren't happy about your frequent absences lately.

00:34:00.969 --> 00:34:03.789

<v SPEAKER_12>And who exactly am I making unhappy?

00:34:03.789 --> 00:34:05.089

<v SPEAKER_13>It doesn't matter.

00:34:05.089 --> 00:34:06.709

<v SPEAKER_13>I don't disagree with them.

00:34:06.709 --> 00:34:08.449

<v SPEAKER_13>It's becoming a problem.

00:34:09.629 --> 00:34:13.289

<v SPEAKER_13>Folks seem to think you've been chasing some fella around town.

00:34:13.289 --> 00:34:14.549

<v SPEAKER_3>A fella?

00:34:14.589 --> 00:34:16.469

<v SPEAKER_8>Okay.

00:34:16.469 --> 00:34:20.909

<v SPEAKER_13>Yeah, but I know who you really have been out there chasing after.

00:34:23.669 --> 00:34:30.909

<v SPEAKER_13>That gal, like, she might have wealth, fame, hell, I can't even deny she's a fine little thing.

00:34:30.909 --> 00:34:39.029

<v SPEAKER_13>But, Ella, if you stick around with her long enough, she will suck you into her orbit of darkness.

00:34:39.029 --> 00:34:45.869

<v SPEAKER_13>Now, we're trying to build up our people here, our families, and we gotta preserve and protect them.

00:34:45.909 --> 00:34:51.089

<v SPEAKER_13>I mean, it's folks like Lorraine, they only get in the way of that.

00:34:51.089 --> 00:35:03.589

<v SPEAKER_12>Dude, you have some real nerve bringing this vacuous nonsense to my attention when you have yet to talk to our comrades about their desire to have control and power over our sisters.

00:35:03.589 --> 00:35:06.949

<v SPEAKER_12>This is the violence that is tearing families apart.

00:35:06.949 --> 00:35:15.449

<v SPEAKER_12>This revolution you want to start, that the so-called future you want for our children will never see the light of day unless we get our priorities.

00:35:16.589 --> 00:35:20.609

<v SPEAKER_12>Now who I spend my time with should not be of anyone's concern.

00:35:27.128 --> 00:35:29.028

<v SPEAKER_13>I've been meaning to talk to the men.

00:35:29.028 --> 00:35:32.988

<v SPEAKER_12>Yeah, yeah, meaning to and just doing it are very different things.

00:35:32.988 --> 00:35:34.828

<v SPEAKER_13>Come on, look.

00:35:36.368 --> 00:35:40.328

<v SPEAKER_13>I started thinking about what I should say, so just listen.

00:35:40.328 --> 00:35:43.508

<v SPEAKER_13>This is all I got so far.

00:35:45.608 --> 00:35:51.608

<v SPEAKER_13>If anyone even thinks about raising a hand to a woman, you motherfuckers are gonna have to deal with me.

00:35:51.608 --> 00:35:56.248

<v SPEAKER_13>I'm not playing that shit, so you bring that shit, you gonna get yourself dead.

00:35:56.388 --> 00:35:58.448

<v SPEAKER_12>Okay, okay, LeRoy, you sound very antagonistic.

00:35:58.448 --> 00:36:00.508

<v SPEAKER_12>You know, no one will receive that well.

00:36:01.708 --> 00:36:08.768

<v SPEAKER_13>Ella, I don't know what possesses a cat to lay his hands on a sister, okay?

00:36:08.768 --> 00:36:11.008

<v SPEAKER_13>That shit is beyond me.

00:36:11.008 --> 00:36:11.668

<v SPEAKER_12>That.

00:36:11.668 --> 00:36:12.348

<v SPEAKER_12>That right there.

00:36:12.348 --> 00:36:15.288

<v SPEAKER_12>You can start with that very question.

00:36:15.288 --> 00:36:21.328

<v SPEAKER_12>Why do you all think it's okay to hurt one another, and how can we help each other be better?

00:36:22.368 --> 00:36:23.948

<v SPEAKER_12>Do better.

00:36:23.948 --> 00:36:27.868

<v SPEAKER_12>You know, don't overthink it, Leroy.

00:36:29.128 --> 00:36:31.548

<v SPEAKER_12>Now I gotta go chase some darkness.

00:36:36.808 --> 00:36:40.488

<v SPEAKER_6>Leroy was a good one, a real one.

00:36:40.488 --> 00:36:46.168

<v SPEAKER_6>He was right about a lot of things, but he didn't know anything about Lorraine.

00:36:47.468 --> 00:36:58.788

<v SPEAKER_6>The only dark thing about her was, well, there were a few things, but mainly her entanglement with Sean.

00:37:00.648 --> 00:37:04.008

<v SPEAKER_8>Most people believed I was in love with Sean.

00:37:04.008 --> 00:37:06.608

<v SPEAKER_8>Even I believed it sometimes.

00:37:06.608 --> 00:37:11.188

<v SPEAKER_8>Ella never liked him, but she didn't want me to leave Sean for her.

00:37:11.188 --> 00:37:15.528

<v SPEAKER_8>She wanted me to leave him for me, but I didn't want him to go.

00:37:16.088 --> 00:37:24.488

<v SPEAKER_8>I thought I needed him and I just knew he would leave and go on and manage Diana, Dion, even Della.

00:37:24.488 --> 00:37:31.888

<v SPEAKER_8>She was getting on up to an age at that time, but if she could keep the checks coming, he wouldn't mind.

00:37:31.888 --> 00:37:35.508

<v SPEAKER_8>If I had any sense at the time, I would have just let him go.

00:37:41.656 --> 00:37:43.496

<v SPEAKER_11>Why are all these people in our home?

00:37:43.496 --> 00:37:48.756

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm not in the mood or properly dressed to entertain nobody.

00:37:48.756 --> 00:37:52.576

<v SPEAKER_10>You got the part in the lady and gentleman remake.

00:37:52.576 --> 00:37:53.996

<v SPEAKER_11>What?

00:37:53.996 --> 00:37:54.936

<v SPEAKER_10>What'd I tell you?

00:37:54.976 --> 00:37:56.696

<v SPEAKER_10>MGM loved you.

00:37:56.696 --> 00:37:58.656

<v SPEAKER_11>I thought for sure they'd give it to Dorinda.

00:37:58.676 --> 00:38:00.776

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, man, fuck Dorinda.

00:38:00.776 --> 00:38:02.516

<v SPEAKER_10>You gonna be Cleo.

00:38:02.516 --> 00:38:05.236

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm gonna play a prostitute.

00:38:05.236 --> 00:38:08.016

<v SPEAKER_10>Don't sound so excited.

00:38:08.016 --> 00:38:09.756

<v SPEAKER_11>I just don't know about this.

00:38:09.756 --> 00:38:10.316

<v SPEAKER_10>About what?

00:38:11.036 --> 00:38:16.996

<v SPEAKER_11>It's just that, if I go down this road, I'll never be able to get my old image back.

00:38:16.996 --> 00:38:21.836

<v SPEAKER_11>I'll be stuck playing these, these loose women.

00:38:21.836 --> 00:38:24.516

<v SPEAKER_10>You'll be the Black Marilyn Monroe.

00:38:24.516 --> 00:38:26.256

<v SPEAKER_11>So dead at 36?

00:38:26.256 --> 00:38:27.296

<v SPEAKER_10>Uh, no.

00:38:27.296 --> 00:38:28.996

<v SPEAKER_10>An icon.

00:38:28.996 --> 00:38:32.496

<v SPEAKER_11>It's a whole lot easier for the world to love a white woman.

00:38:32.496 --> 00:38:35.596

<v SPEAKER_11>And even Marilyn had to deal with a lot of shit.

00:38:35.596 --> 00:38:37.516

<v SPEAKER_11>I'll be crucified.

00:38:37.516 --> 00:38:38.956

<v SPEAKER_11>I already know what folks are gonna say.

00:38:39.616 --> 00:38:41.936

<v SPEAKER_10>Woman, you gotta focus on now.

00:38:41.936 --> 00:38:43.616

<v SPEAKER_10>You can't worry about nothing else.

00:38:43.616 --> 00:38:47.696

<v SPEAKER_11>Everything I do now will affect my future.

00:38:47.696 --> 00:38:50.136

<v SPEAKER_11>This role could fuck shit up, Sean.

00:38:50.136 --> 00:38:50.756

<v SPEAKER_10>Your future?

00:38:57.529 --> 00:39:01.689

<v SPEAKER_10>You keep taking those pills the way you do, and you probably will be dead at 36.

00:39:03.829 --> 00:39:05.469

<v SPEAKER_10>You thought I didn't know?

00:39:06.889 --> 00:39:08.849

<v SPEAKER_11>You never said nothing.

00:39:08.849 --> 00:39:12.049

<v SPEAKER_10>Because it don't matter.

00:39:12.049 --> 00:39:15.529

<v SPEAKER_10>I only care about you getting in our way.

00:39:15.529 --> 00:39:22.109

<v SPEAKER_10>Now, you can whine all day about playing a prostitute, but at least you ain't never had to be one.

00:39:22.109 --> 00:39:23.709

<v SPEAKER_10>Now, hurry up and change.

00:39:25.469 --> 00:39:27.209

<v SPEAKER_10>You got guests waiting to celebrate you.

00:39:33.456 --> 00:39:37.276

<v SPEAKER_5>So Lorraine isn't or rather wasn't much of a writer.

00:39:37.276 --> 00:39:40.376

<v SPEAKER_5>She says she didn't care to journal, and she rarely sent letters.

00:39:40.376 --> 00:39:44.336

<v SPEAKER_5>Apparently, my grandmother was the only lover she ever wrote to.

00:39:44.336 --> 00:39:55.876

<v SPEAKER_5>On June 12th, 1971, Lorraine sent my grandmother, Ella, a letter saying, Dear Ella, I am writing to share some good news and bad news.

00:39:55.876 --> 00:40:01.076

<v SPEAKER_5>The good news is I've been cast as Cleo and the lady in The Gentleman movie.

00:40:01.696 --> 00:40:06.416

<v SPEAKER_5>The bad news is I've been cast as Cleo in the Lady and Gentleman movie.

00:40:06.416 --> 00:40:10.056

<v SPEAKER_5>I ain't ever been in a big picture like this before.

00:40:10.056 --> 00:40:12.036

<v SPEAKER_5>It could do wonders for my career.

00:40:12.036 --> 00:40:14.456

<v SPEAKER_5>Or it could do nothing for my career.

00:40:14.456 --> 00:40:18.816

<v SPEAKER_5>Or it could be the end of my career altogether.

00:40:18.816 --> 00:40:20.896

<v SPEAKER_5>I know you'll think I'm being dramatic.

00:40:20.896 --> 00:40:23.196

<v SPEAKER_5>I have some reservations about the movie.

00:40:23.196 --> 00:40:26.236

<v SPEAKER_5>Half the world has already seen both of my ass cheeks.

00:40:26.236 --> 00:40:31.036

<v SPEAKER_5>I suppose it won't hurt to show the rest of the world the one good thing my mother gave me.

00:40:31.036 --> 00:40:33.656

<v SPEAKER_5>But I don't want to set our people back, Ella.

00:40:33.656 --> 00:40:36.976

<v SPEAKER_5>They already think our women are uncivilized.

00:40:36.976 --> 00:40:40.916

<v SPEAKER_5>And I don't want to give them any more reason to think those things about us.

00:40:40.916 --> 00:40:42.876

<v SPEAKER_5>We are so much more than that.

00:40:42.876 --> 00:40:45.476

<v SPEAKER_5>Well, I may not be, but you are.

00:40:45.476 --> 00:40:47.256

<v SPEAKER_5>And there are plenty of women like you.

00:40:47.256 --> 00:40:49.136

<v SPEAKER_5>They should be making movies about.

00:40:49.136 --> 00:40:50.716

<v SPEAKER_5>I don't know what to do.

00:40:50.716 --> 00:40:52.096

<v SPEAKER_5>What do you think?

00:40:52.096 --> 00:40:55.496

<v SPEAKER_5>By the time you receive this, I will likely have to give MGM an answer.

00:40:56.076 --> 00:40:58.456

<v SPEAKER_5>So please call me as soon as you can.

00:40:58.456 --> 00:41:01.056

<v SPEAKER_5>Your love, Lorraine G.

00:41:03.416 --> 00:41:09.516

<v SPEAKER_5>My grandmother doesn't remember getting this letter from Lorraine, and she didn't care to look at it when I showed her.

00:41:09.516 --> 00:41:14.276

<v SPEAKER_5>She told me that she invites Lorraine to turn down the film offer.

00:41:14.276 --> 00:41:16.616

<v SPEAKER_5>I'm glad Lorraine didn't listen to her.

00:41:16.616 --> 00:41:24.216

<v SPEAKER_5>The Lady and the Gentlemen may have been largely hated by the folks in our community back in the day, but it's a beloved classic now.

00:41:24.216 --> 00:41:24.836

<v SPEAKER_5>Isn't that funny?

00:41:25.316 --> 00:41:27.156

<v SPEAKER_5>It's actually one of my favorite films.

00:41:27.156 --> 00:41:31.416

<v SPEAKER_5>Lorraine gives face, she gives body, she hits those notes.

00:41:31.416 --> 00:41:33.016

<v SPEAKER_5>It's a great time.

00:41:33.016 --> 00:41:37.836

<v SPEAKER_5>I mean, the filmmaking isn't anything to write home about, but the movie is hilarious.

00:41:37.836 --> 00:41:47.556

<v SPEAKER_5>I don't think the filmmakers set out to make comedy, but the film and all of its racism and sexism is so unserious.

00:41:47.556 --> 00:41:52.036

<v SPEAKER_5>I guess that's why reading Lorraine's letter to my grandmother made me cringe.

00:41:52.896 --> 00:41:56.836

<v SPEAKER_5>Deciding whether or not to be in a film was a major dilemma.

00:41:56.836 --> 00:41:58.316

<v SPEAKER_5>It was just one that I don't understand.

00:41:58.316 --> 00:42:14.036

<v SPEAKER_5>Now, I don't want to minimize the importance of representation, but the idea of a single movie having the power to take down the entire race is an intense pressure that I'm glad I don't ever have to worry about.

00:42:15.156 --> 00:42:35.836

<v SPEAKER_5>I'm so thankful to live in a time where, well, I guess we don't have reproductive rights, but Ali's sex work is becoming de-stigmatized and decriminalized, and while we may not have legal autonomy over our bodies, if nothing else, we're encouraged to embrace our power and reject shame.

00:42:35.836 --> 00:42:38.196

<v SPEAKER_5>I wish Lorraine got the respect she deserved.

00:42:38.196 --> 00:42:41.596

<v SPEAKER_5>I wish she had autonomy over her body and her image.

00:42:41.596 --> 00:42:45.696

<v SPEAKER_5>I wish she didn't have to carry the weight of Black people everywhere on her shoulders.

00:42:45.696 --> 00:42:47.416

<v SPEAKER_5>I hope she's able to lay some of that down.

00:42:57.749 --> 00:43:02.109

<v SPEAKER_16>Everyone wants to hear our movie star Lorraine sing a little something.

00:43:02.109 --> 00:43:03.869

<v SPEAKER_11>You're so kind.

00:43:03.869 --> 00:43:06.209

<v SPEAKER_11>But I'm rusty tonight, folks.

00:43:06.209 --> 00:43:08.589

<v SPEAKER_10>Aw, go on and sing some poem.

00:43:10.889 --> 00:43:12.389

<v SPEAKER_11>Fine.

00:43:12.389 --> 00:43:13.369

<v SPEAKER_11>But just one song.

00:45:02.673 --> 00:45:05.433

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening to Red For Revolution.

00:45:05.433 --> 00:45:06.973

<v SPEAKER_4>Life is short.

00:45:06.973 --> 00:45:13.893

<v SPEAKER_4>We hope this episode encourages you to question, how can I make revolutionary love a daily practice?

00:45:13.893 --> 00:45:21.573

<v SPEAKER_4>Red For Revolution was created, written, and directed by Jana Naomi Smith, with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:45:21.573 --> 00:45:25.533

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall, and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:45:25.533 --> 00:45:34.813

<v SPEAKER_4>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith, and Meta Mana Media, and produced by Liz McBee.

00:45:34.813 --> 00:45:40.773

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode featured performances by Jordan Hull as Jasmine James, S.

00:45:40.773 --> 00:46:26.393

<v SPEAKER_4>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, Present Day, Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, Present Day, Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni in the 1970s, Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali in the 1970s, Don Daniels as Sean, Alimi Ballard as Leroy, Carl Guzmán as Kathy, Malakiy Rhoden as Joe, Mark Thompson as Black Dream's host, Miles Agee as Black Dream's producer, Krystel Roche as Roseline, and Matthew Quitney as party guest.

00:46:26.393 --> 00:46:31.193

<v SPEAKER_4>And this is Adrienne Marie Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:46:31.193 --> 00:46:36.353

<v SPEAKER_4>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrian Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:46:36.353 --> 00:46:37.513

<v SPEAKER_4>Williams.

00:46:37.513 --> 00:46:42.873

<v SPEAKER_15>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the managing producer.

00:46:42.873 --> 00:46:46.373

<v SPEAKER_15>Audrey Mardavich is the executive producer.

00:46:46.373 --> 00:46:56.713

<v SPEAKER_15>Red For Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited run, artist owned series from new and original voices.

00:46:56.713 --> 00:47:01.373

<v SPEAKER_15>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:47:01.673 --> 00:47:04.513

<v SPEAKER_4>Our Red For Revolution band includes Tammy L.

00:47:04.513 --> 00:47:18.293

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute, and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:47:18.293 --> 00:47:22.173

<v SPEAKER_4>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:47:22.173 --> 00:47:25.653

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:47:25.653 --> 00:47:33.273

<v SPEAKER_4>The music featured in this episode includes, I Don't Want To Know, Original Composition by Tammy L.

00:47:33.273 --> 00:47:40.213

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith, performed by René Wilson and the Red For Revolution Band.

00:47:40.213 --> 00:47:45.033

<v SPEAKER_4>My Love Ain't No Play Thang, Original Composition by Tammy L.

00:47:45.033 --> 00:47:52.213

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith, performed by René Wilson and the Red For Revolution Band.

00:47:52.213 --> 00:48:03.573

<v SPEAKER_4>Never Will I Marry, written by Frank Loesser, performed by René Wilson and the Red For Revolution Band, courtesy of MPL Music Publishing.

00:48:04.873 --> 00:48:10.793

<v SPEAKER_4>The team behind Red For Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:48:10.793 --> 00:48:17.133

<v SPEAKER_4>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforevolution.com.

00:48:18.673 --> 00:48:22.113

<v SPEAKER_4>This has been your Sonic Goddess, Adrienne Marie Brown.

00:48:22.113 --> 00:48:22.913

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening.

00:48:37.492 --> 00:48:39.572

<v SPEAKER_8>Radiotopia, from PRX.

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:05.780

<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

00:00:07.180 --> 00:00:12.460

<v SPEAKER_2>Can people really change for the better in life, in love, and in relationships?

00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:18.680

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm Meredith Goldstein, longtime advice columnist at the Boston Globe and host of its podcast, Love Letters.

00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:23.500

<v SPEAKER_2>In season 10 of Love Letters, we're asking one big question, can people change?

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.480

<v SPEAKER_2>And if so, how?

00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:33.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Get ready to laugh, cry, and learn as guests tell real stories about resilience, transformation, and being better at being together.

00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:36.860

<v SPEAKER_2>Listen or watch the new season of Love Letters wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:38.060 --> 00:00:41.100

<v SPEAKER_3>This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:46.000

<v SPEAKER_3>Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians.

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:51.420

<v SPEAKER_3>These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds.

00:00:51.420 --> 00:00:54.200

<v SPEAKER_3>Visit progressive.com to see if you could save.

00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.480

<v SPEAKER_3>Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

00:00:56.480 --> 00:00:57.920

<v SPEAKER_3>Potential savings will vary.

00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.960

<v SPEAKER_3>Not available in all states for situations.

00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.680

<v SPEAKER_4>We must love like summer.

00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:06.060

<v SPEAKER_4>Storming, burning off the surface.

00:01:06.580 --> 00:01:08.860

<v SPEAKER_4>Sun and rain in the same moment.

00:01:08.860 --> 00:01:12.280

<v SPEAKER_4>Double rainbow style inspirations.

00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.700

<v SPEAKER_4>Wildfire Alchemists.

00:01:14.700 --> 00:01:16.900

<v SPEAKER_4>Adrian Murray Brown.

00:01:16.900 --> 00:01:20.260

<v SPEAKER_4>You're listening to Red for Revolution, the audio drama.

00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:24.920

<v SPEAKER_4>And this is Adrian Murray Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:31.640

<v SPEAKER_4>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.100

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode contains adult content.

00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:36.940

<v SPEAKER_4>Listener discretion advised.

00:01:36.940 --> 00:01:41.140

<v SPEAKER_4>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

00:01:43.440 --> 00:01:52.080

<v SPEAKER_4>Last episode, Jazmine found her grandmother's journals and uncovered new dimensions of her interior life.

00:01:52.080 --> 00:02:03.560

<v SPEAKER_4>Meanwhile, back in 1971, Lorraine contemplated ending her engagement to her manager while Ella worked to dismantle male chauvinism in the Black Liberation Coalition.

00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:10.920

<v SPEAKER_4>Ultimately, with the help of divine intervention, Ella and Lorraine were reunited.

00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:13.980

<v SPEAKER_4>Without further ado, let's continue our story.

00:02:32.106 --> 00:02:34.166

<v SPEAKER_6>Wow, look at you, Jazz.

00:02:34.166 --> 00:02:40.206

<v SPEAKER_6>You look nice as always, but I see you're doing something different today.

00:02:40.206 --> 00:02:42.926

<v SPEAKER_7>Good different or not so good?

00:02:42.926 --> 00:02:44.586

<v SPEAKER_6>I like it.

00:02:44.586 --> 00:02:50.806

<v SPEAKER_6>But I didn't think you liked artificial lashes or the color pink.

00:02:50.806 --> 00:02:51.986

<v SPEAKER_8>I don't.

00:02:53.866 --> 00:02:55.106

<v SPEAKER_8>Mom, we're recording.

00:02:55.106 --> 00:02:57.606

<v SPEAKER_5>Jazz, did you take my foundation?

00:02:57.606 --> 00:02:58.406

<v SPEAKER_7>Maybe.

00:02:58.406 --> 00:02:58.846

<v SPEAKER_5>Where is it?

00:03:01.746 --> 00:03:03.406

<v SPEAKER_7>I might have used it all.

00:03:04.666 --> 00:03:06.946

<v SPEAKER_5>There's no way you could have used all of it.

00:03:06.946 --> 00:03:10.386

<v SPEAKER_7>Well, that's what you'd think, but those makeup tutorials are not easy.

00:03:10.746 --> 00:03:13.886

<v SPEAKER_7>I kept on messing up and I had to restart over and over again.

00:03:13.886 --> 00:03:17.326

<v SPEAKER_7>Anyway, I'll replace it, I promise.

00:03:17.526 --> 00:03:18.626

<v SPEAKER_5>Do you have a timeline for that?

00:03:18.826 --> 00:03:20.506

<v SPEAKER_5>When you're going to replace it?

00:03:22.306 --> 00:03:27.426

<v SPEAKER_7>Like, tomorrow, or today, or soon.

00:03:27.426 --> 00:03:29.206

<v SPEAKER_7>Mommy, why are you staring at me like that?

00:03:29.206 --> 00:03:31.506

<v SPEAKER_7>I said I'll replace it.

00:03:31.506 --> 00:03:36.386

<v SPEAKER_7>I really promised to do that, today even, or maybe tomorrow, actually.

00:03:36.746 --> 00:03:40.866

<v SPEAKER_5>I don't know, I've never seen you wear this much makeup before.

00:03:42.486 --> 00:03:46.266

<v SPEAKER_5>Wait, are those artificial eyelashes you have on?

00:03:46.266 --> 00:03:47.906

<v SPEAKER_8>Yeah.

00:03:47.906 --> 00:03:49.946

<v SPEAKER_5>Those are probably mine too, right?

00:03:50.046 --> 00:03:51.566

<v SPEAKER_5>Or did you get them on your own?

00:03:51.566 --> 00:03:52.646

<v SPEAKER_7>No, I got them.

00:03:52.646 --> 00:03:53.186

<v SPEAKER_5>Okay.

00:03:53.186 --> 00:03:54.446

<v SPEAKER_5>No, it's okay.

00:03:54.446 --> 00:03:58.286

<v SPEAKER_5>But your, the whole outfit, I don't know, it doesn't seem to suit you, that's all.

00:03:58.286 --> 00:04:02.526

<v SPEAKER_5>Are you going to go out of the house like that, or is this part of a tutorial thing?

00:04:02.526 --> 00:04:03.446

<v SPEAKER_7>Yeah, I'm going to go out.

00:04:03.446 --> 00:04:05.106

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm going with my friend Adrian.

00:04:07.906 --> 00:04:09.486

<v SPEAKER_5>Okay, I need to go.

00:04:09.486 --> 00:04:11.066

<v SPEAKER_7>Mommy, wait.

00:04:11.066 --> 00:04:13.386

<v SPEAKER_7>Do you think it's too much?

00:04:13.386 --> 00:04:15.646

<v SPEAKER_5>I just don't think you should be going out with that-

00:04:15.646 --> 00:04:17.946

<v SPEAKER_7>Adrian, why not?

00:04:18.626 --> 00:04:23.306

<v SPEAKER_5>Look, I don't have time for this, Jazz, and just please stay out of my makeup cabinet.

00:04:23.306 --> 00:04:24.886

<v SPEAKER_7>Why not?

00:04:24.886 --> 00:04:26.406

<v SPEAKER_5>I look forward to getting my foundation back.

00:04:31.871 --> 00:04:35.211

<v SPEAKER_7>Grandma, do you think I look weird?

00:04:35.211 --> 00:04:37.351

<v SPEAKER_6>I think you look just fine.

00:04:37.351 --> 00:04:40.211

<v SPEAKER_6>But it doesn't matter what I think.

00:04:40.211 --> 00:04:41.071

<v SPEAKER_7>Ugh, I know.

00:04:41.071 --> 00:04:43.371

<v SPEAKER_7>I just hope Adrian likes it.

00:04:43.371 --> 00:04:45.471

<v SPEAKER_7>But enough about me.

00:04:45.471 --> 00:04:49.631

<v SPEAKER_7>What I need to know, did Lorraine break up with the Sean guy or nah?

00:04:53.231 --> 00:04:57.811

<v SPEAKER_7>Grandma, you're giving me that look, that face of ultimate disapproval.

00:04:58.811 --> 00:05:10.631

<v SPEAKER_6>Could you help me understand why you would dress yourself up in something you have no interest in wearing, just to impress someone who already likes you?

00:05:10.631 --> 00:05:19.571

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay, but once you meet Adrian, you'll understand, because her face is always beat and her nails are done and her clothes are from sample cells.

00:05:19.571 --> 00:05:23.371

<v SPEAKER_7>I have to step things up if I want to date her.

00:05:23.371 --> 00:05:23.831

<v SPEAKER_6>Says who?

00:05:25.091 --> 00:05:29.371

<v SPEAKER_7>Well, technically no one, but I feel like I need to.

00:05:30.451 --> 00:05:32.231

<v SPEAKER_7>And now I feel silly.

00:05:32.231 --> 00:05:33.751

<v SPEAKER_6>Look, no, no.

00:05:33.751 --> 00:05:35.691

<v SPEAKER_6>I don't mean to make you feel that way.

00:05:35.691 --> 00:05:41.291

<v SPEAKER_6>I just don't want you to get in the habit of changing yourself for someone.

00:05:41.291 --> 00:05:43.651

<v SPEAKER_6>It's a hard habit to break.

00:05:47.051 --> 00:05:50.511

<v SPEAKER_7>I came across another fascinating journal entry from my grandmother.

00:05:50.511 --> 00:05:56.811

<v SPEAKER_7>This entry has some explicit sexual details, and I will be skipping over that part.

00:05:56.811 --> 00:05:58.811

<v SPEAKER_7>August 11th, 1971.

00:05:59.911 --> 00:06:02.411

<v SPEAKER_7>Lorraine is coming to town tomorrow.

00:06:02.411 --> 00:06:05.371

<v SPEAKER_7>She says she has a surprise for me.

00:06:05.371 --> 00:06:11.071

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm excited to see her, but I can't say I'm excited about this surprise.

00:06:11.071 --> 00:06:13.411

<v SPEAKER_7>Lorraine is good at many, many things.

00:06:13.411 --> 00:06:14.291

<v SPEAKER_7>Explicit, okay.

00:06:14.291 --> 00:06:17.051

<v SPEAKER_7>Explicit detail, explicit detail, explicit detail.

00:06:17.051 --> 00:06:22.291

<v SPEAKER_7>But she is not particularly adept at planning dates, giving gifts or surprises.

00:06:22.291 --> 00:06:24.251

<v SPEAKER_7>Yet I can't wait for tomorrow.

00:06:24.251 --> 00:06:26.131

<v SPEAKER_7>I doubt I'll get any sleep.

00:06:26.131 --> 00:06:27.831

<v SPEAKER_7>My excitement won't allow that.

00:06:33.948 --> 00:06:35.288

<v SPEAKER_10>Watch your step.

00:06:35.288 --> 00:06:41.068

<v SPEAKER_11>How am I supposed to do that when you have this blindfold covered my eyes?

00:06:41.068 --> 00:06:42.048

<v SPEAKER_10>Hold on.

00:06:42.048 --> 00:06:43.688

<v SPEAKER_10>Take my hand.

00:06:43.688 --> 00:06:46.068

<v SPEAKER_10>I got you.

00:06:46.068 --> 00:06:48.468

<v SPEAKER_9>Where are you taking me?

00:06:48.468 --> 00:06:49.588

<v SPEAKER_10>You'll see.

00:06:49.588 --> 00:06:53.188

<v SPEAKER_9>It better not be another impromptu shopping spree.

00:06:53.188 --> 00:06:54.148

<v SPEAKER_10>Okay.

00:06:54.148 --> 00:06:58.228

<v SPEAKER_10>You can sit here and go on ahead and take off the blindfold.

00:07:06.378 --> 00:07:09.398

<v SPEAKER_10>You're flying with the birds today.

00:07:09.398 --> 00:07:13.018

<v SPEAKER_3>You, you, you, you have a plane?

00:07:13.018 --> 00:07:14.198

<v SPEAKER_10>It ain't mine.

00:07:14.198 --> 00:07:16.338

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't make that much money now.

00:07:16.338 --> 00:07:19.078

<v SPEAKER_10>But Harry Belafonte let me borrow his charter.

00:07:19.078 --> 00:07:19.998

<v SPEAKER_12>Okay, wait, wait, wait.

00:07:19.998 --> 00:07:21.918

<v SPEAKER_12>Have you been Harry Belafonte?

00:07:21.918 --> 00:07:23.358

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, God, no.

00:07:23.358 --> 00:07:24.598

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm not his type.

00:07:24.598 --> 00:07:26.298

<v SPEAKER_10>He just owes me a favor.

00:07:27.458 --> 00:07:29.018

<v SPEAKER_13>Attention passengers.

00:07:29.038 --> 00:07:31.058

<v SPEAKER_13>This is your captain speaking.

00:07:31.058 --> 00:07:33.038

<v SPEAKER_13>Please take your seats as we prepare to take off.

00:07:33.658 --> 00:07:38.258

<v SPEAKER_13>We anticipate some light turbulence, so please make sure that your seat belts are tightly fastened.

00:07:38.258 --> 00:07:44.458

<v SPEAKER_12>Oh, Lorraine, my heart just started beating faster than a track star running at the Olympics.

00:07:44.458 --> 00:07:46.518

<v SPEAKER_10>Aw, you're nervous.

00:07:47.838 --> 00:07:48.758

<v SPEAKER_10>Have some champagne.

00:07:56.727 --> 00:07:58.187

<v SPEAKER_12>What is this?

00:07:58.187 --> 00:07:59.267

<v SPEAKER_10>It'll help you sleep.

00:07:59.267 --> 00:08:01.567

<v SPEAKER_10>It'll take us about six hours to get to LA.

00:08:01.567 --> 00:08:03.507

<v SPEAKER_12>We're going to LA.?

00:08:03.507 --> 00:08:05.127

<v SPEAKER_10>It's about time I showed you my home.

00:08:29.971 --> 00:08:32.511

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't believe you live in such a huge house.

00:08:32.511 --> 00:08:34.091

<v SPEAKER_10>Make yourself comfortable.

00:08:34.091 --> 00:08:35.051

<v SPEAKER_12>Where's Sean?

00:08:35.051 --> 00:08:39.691

<v SPEAKER_10>He's in Vegas this weekend gambling with those white fellas he wishes he was friends with.

00:08:39.691 --> 00:08:42.991

<v SPEAKER_11>My goodness, Lorraine, do you hear yourself?

00:08:42.991 --> 00:08:46.951

<v SPEAKER_10>I know what you're thinking, but Sean knows what he's doing.

00:08:46.951 --> 00:08:50.871

<v SPEAKER_10>Gambling is his way of getting to know the power players in this industry better.

00:08:50.871 --> 00:08:52.951

<v SPEAKER_11>You should tell him to take up golf.

00:08:52.951 --> 00:08:55.131

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, enough about Sean.

00:08:55.131 --> 00:08:57.691

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't want to hear his name the rest of the weekend.

00:09:08.111 --> 00:09:10.351

<v SPEAKER_10>Now, this is what I want to hear.

00:09:18.898 --> 00:09:19.958

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm gonna take a bath.

00:09:26.717 --> 00:09:28.577

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm gonna go take a nap.

00:09:28.577 --> 00:09:29.857

<v SPEAKER_10>That's no fun.

00:09:29.857 --> 00:09:33.357

<v SPEAKER_11>We can have fun after I've napped.

00:09:34.717 --> 00:09:37.297

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, are we all right?

00:09:37.297 --> 00:09:38.437

<v SPEAKER_12>Of course.

00:09:38.437 --> 00:09:44.057

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, just a moment ago, when we were having fun, you wouldn't let me take your bra off.

00:09:44.057 --> 00:09:45.917

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm noticing you never do.

00:09:45.917 --> 00:09:50.777

<v SPEAKER_10>Even when we're making love, you keep your undergarments on.

00:09:50.777 --> 00:09:54.257

<v SPEAKER_11>Not everyone feels as free in their skin as you do, Lorraine.

00:09:54.257 --> 00:09:57.497

<v SPEAKER_10>Coming from the woman who does nothing but talk about freedom.

00:09:57.517 --> 00:10:00.877

<v SPEAKER_11>I talk about plenty of other things.

00:10:00.877 --> 00:10:04.017

<v SPEAKER_10>You know, there ain't many places we can feel free.

00:10:04.017 --> 00:10:06.397

<v SPEAKER_10>So you might as well feel it in your body.

00:10:06.397 --> 00:10:08.317

<v SPEAKER_11>You might be right about that.

00:10:08.317 --> 00:10:10.677

<v SPEAKER_10>What?

00:10:10.677 --> 00:10:15.637

<v SPEAKER_10>The all-knowing Ella Ali thinks I'm right?

00:10:15.637 --> 00:10:17.737

<v SPEAKER_11>I said might be.

00:10:20.317 --> 00:10:21.777

<v SPEAKER_10>So you're gonna join me?

00:10:22.877 --> 00:10:24.137

<v SPEAKER_11>Not right now.

00:10:24.137 --> 00:10:26.397

<v SPEAKER_10>You afraid I won't like what I see?

00:10:26.397 --> 00:10:31.637

<v SPEAKER_11>I know I don't have what someone like yourself would desire.

00:10:31.637 --> 00:10:33.297

<v SPEAKER_10>What makes you say that?

00:10:33.297 --> 00:10:35.937

<v SPEAKER_10>Has something said something to you?

00:10:35.937 --> 00:10:37.337

<v SPEAKER_10>About your body?

00:10:39.737 --> 00:10:41.357

<v SPEAKER_9>No, it's...

00:10:41.357 --> 00:10:41.797

<v SPEAKER_11>it's just...

00:10:48.099 --> 00:10:51.419

<v SPEAKER_11>Has left me right after they get to know me.

00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:53.119

<v SPEAKER_11>See me.

00:10:53.119 --> 00:10:55.719

<v SPEAKER_11>All of me.

00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.959

<v SPEAKER_10>I ain't gonna leave you, Ella.

00:10:59.959 --> 00:11:01.559

<v SPEAKER_10>I mean it.

00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:04.479

<v SPEAKER_10>Now come on before the water gets cold.

00:11:04.479 --> 00:11:06.699

<v SPEAKER_11>Yeah, I should rest.

00:11:06.699 --> 00:11:10.579

<v SPEAKER_11>I think the travel fatigue is starting to get to me.

00:11:10.579 --> 00:11:13.559

<v SPEAKER_10>You really don't want me to see you naked, do you?

00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.739

<v SPEAKER_11>Well, it's not like I've really seen you either.

00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:19.439

<v SPEAKER_11>You're always made up.

00:11:20.479 --> 00:11:22.259

<v SPEAKER_10>I'll take the makeup off.

00:11:26.659 --> 00:11:27.719

<v SPEAKER_10>See?

00:11:27.719 --> 00:11:29.179

<v SPEAKER_10>Ain't I gorgeous?

00:11:29.179 --> 00:11:32.279

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes, you are.

00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.799

<v SPEAKER_10>And don't you want to take a bath with a fine woman like myself?

00:11:39.219 --> 00:11:41.019

<v SPEAKER_10>I won't beg.

00:11:41.019 --> 00:11:42.319

<v SPEAKER_10>I'll let you go and get some rest.

00:11:48.849 --> 00:11:50.549

<v SPEAKER_11>This is me.

00:11:50.549 --> 00:11:54.569

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, Ella, you are beautiful.

00:11:54.569 --> 00:11:58.529

<v SPEAKER_11>You don't have to say anything nice to me just to make me feel good.

00:11:58.529 --> 00:12:01.029

<v SPEAKER_10>I wasn't saying it to make you feel better.

00:12:01.029 --> 00:12:02.749

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm saying it because that's how I feel.

00:12:09.032 --> 00:12:10.532

<v SPEAKER_11>Burn it out.

00:12:10.532 --> 00:12:12.212

<v SPEAKER_10>It's the only way I can get the last.

00:12:18.876 --> 00:12:22.156

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, you're not in a kiss and move?

00:12:22.156 --> 00:12:24.116

<v SPEAKER_10>Does my breath smell or something?

00:12:27.196 --> 00:12:30.336

<v SPEAKER_11>Lorraine, how many other women have you been with?

00:12:30.336 --> 00:12:31.316

<v SPEAKER_10>Why?

00:12:31.316 --> 00:12:33.216

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm curious.

00:12:33.216 --> 00:12:34.636

<v SPEAKER_10>A handful.

00:12:34.636 --> 00:12:36.676

<v SPEAKER_11>Who were these women?

00:12:36.676 --> 00:12:38.336

<v SPEAKER_10>I can't say.

00:12:38.336 --> 00:12:40.196

<v SPEAKER_10>I made promises to people.

00:12:40.196 --> 00:12:42.996

<v SPEAKER_11>Do I know any of them?

00:12:42.996 --> 00:12:44.516

<v SPEAKER_10>What about you?

00:12:44.516 --> 00:12:45.716

<v SPEAKER_12>Two.

00:12:45.716 --> 00:12:46.576

<v SPEAKER_10>Any male lovers?

00:12:48.036 --> 00:12:49.496

<v SPEAKER_12>Just a few.

00:12:49.496 --> 00:12:53.076

<v SPEAKER_11>How many men have you been with?

00:12:53.076 --> 00:12:54.816

<v SPEAKER_10>Do you really want to know?

00:12:54.816 --> 00:12:56.156

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:12:56.156 --> 00:12:57.056

<v SPEAKER_10>You sure?

00:12:57.056 --> 00:12:58.236

<v SPEAKER_11>Maybe.

00:12:59.636 --> 00:13:01.756

<v SPEAKER_11>I think I am.

00:13:02.936 --> 00:13:04.516

<v SPEAKER_10>Too many to count.

00:13:06.656 --> 00:13:09.436

<v SPEAKER_12>Do your relationships ever last?

00:13:09.436 --> 00:13:11.016

<v SPEAKER_10>Rarely.

00:13:11.016 --> 00:13:12.876

<v SPEAKER_10>I like my fun.

00:13:12.876 --> 00:13:15.356

<v SPEAKER_10>But eventually I get tired.

00:13:17.916 --> 00:13:20.556

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, do you realize you're covering your chest?

00:13:22.616 --> 00:13:25.296

<v SPEAKER_10>You know I like you, right?

00:13:25.296 --> 00:13:26.716

<v SPEAKER_10>All of you.

00:13:27.816 --> 00:13:30.096

<v SPEAKER_12>When do you think you'll tire of me?

00:13:30.096 --> 00:13:31.576

<v SPEAKER_10>Never.

00:13:31.576 --> 00:13:33.976

<v SPEAKER_10>But you'll probably get tired of me.

00:13:35.816 --> 00:13:38.256

<v SPEAKER_11>I can't imagine that.

00:13:38.256 --> 00:13:42.696

<v SPEAKER_11>Does Sean know about all the fun you have?

00:13:42.696 --> 00:13:43.156

<v SPEAKER_10>Probably.

00:13:44.276 --> 00:13:47.756

<v SPEAKER_11>Does he know about me?

00:13:47.756 --> 00:13:52.396

<v SPEAKER_10>I thought we agreed to not talk about him while you're in town.

00:13:52.396 --> 00:13:53.636

<v SPEAKER_11>Does he?

00:13:55.656 --> 00:13:59.576

<v SPEAKER_10>If he knows, he ain't never said anything to me about it.

00:13:59.576 --> 00:14:02.416

<v SPEAKER_11>That'll likely change once you marry.

00:14:02.416 --> 00:14:06.736

<v SPEAKER_10>You know, you're always thinking about the future.

00:14:09.076 --> 00:14:10.876

<v SPEAKER_10>That's all good until you ruin a moment.

00:14:11.556 --> 00:14:16.676

<v SPEAKER_10>Look, let's just be here, holding each other.

00:14:16.676 --> 00:14:19.136

<v SPEAKER_11>Do you ever think about the future?

00:14:19.136 --> 00:14:22.396

<v SPEAKER_11>Us and the future?

00:14:22.396 --> 00:14:29.956

<v SPEAKER_10>Every time you leave, I think how soon can I see that girl who wants to start a revolution.

00:14:29.996 --> 00:14:34.636

<v SPEAKER_11>Beyond that, beyond the fun.

00:14:36.996 --> 00:14:38.556

<v SPEAKER_11>Am I your future?

00:14:39.696 --> 00:14:43.536

<v SPEAKER_10>Sometimes I wonder, what if we ran off to Paris?

00:14:43.536 --> 00:14:47.596

<v SPEAKER_10>I can work there until I have enough for us to retire.

00:14:47.596 --> 00:14:52.136

<v SPEAKER_10>Then we can travel, get a dog, do whatever we want.

00:14:52.136 --> 00:14:53.396

<v SPEAKER_12>Kids?

00:14:53.396 --> 00:14:55.576

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't know nothing about being a mother.

00:14:56.896 --> 00:14:58.236

<v SPEAKER_10>Not sure if I want to know either.

00:14:59.476 --> 00:15:01.356

<v SPEAKER_10>You want kids?

00:15:02.336 --> 00:15:04.376

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't know.

00:15:04.376 --> 00:15:07.816

<v SPEAKER_11>I want to make this world a little freer first.

00:15:07.816 --> 00:15:11.856

<v SPEAKER_10>Me, you, Paris and a dog.

00:15:11.856 --> 00:15:13.316

<v SPEAKER_10>That's our future.

00:15:14.556 --> 00:15:18.356

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm not too big on dogs, Lorraine.

00:15:18.356 --> 00:15:22.656

<v SPEAKER_12>But I suppose I could try to like them.

00:15:24.196 --> 00:15:25.276

<v SPEAKER_12>Only because I love you.

00:15:29.236 --> 00:15:31.536

<v SPEAKER_7>So you thought Ella would get tired of you?

00:15:31.536 --> 00:15:34.756

<v SPEAKER_8>Why was it hard for you to believe that you two would last?

00:15:34.756 --> 00:15:39.036

<v SPEAKER_9>You don't shy away from the tough questions, do you?

00:15:39.036 --> 00:15:46.156

<v SPEAKER_9>I wanted us to have a future, but I had no reason to believe things would work out between us.

00:15:47.596 --> 00:15:48.316

<v SPEAKER_8>I see.

00:15:48.316 --> 00:15:52.996

<v SPEAKER_8>I, uh, so, uh, well, um...

00:15:52.996 --> 00:15:56.516

<v SPEAKER_9>Just ask what you'd like to ask me.

00:15:56.516 --> 00:16:00.036

<v SPEAKER_9>There's no need to beat around the bush.

00:16:00.036 --> 00:16:03.436

<v SPEAKER_8>I'm curious about your upbringing.

00:16:03.436 --> 00:16:04.856

<v SPEAKER_7>Can you tell me about that?

00:16:04.856 --> 00:16:06.256

<v SPEAKER_9>There isn't much to talk about.

00:16:06.256 --> 00:16:09.036

<v SPEAKER_9>Growing up, nobody paid me any mind.

00:16:10.396 --> 00:16:13.156

<v SPEAKER_9>My mother didn't want to be a mother, so...

00:16:13.156 --> 00:16:14.936

<v SPEAKER_7>So you didn't have a relationship with her?

00:16:15.876 --> 00:16:17.396

<v SPEAKER_9>Not really.

00:16:17.396 --> 00:16:19.296

<v SPEAKER_7>Not even as an adult?

00:16:19.296 --> 00:16:24.416

<v SPEAKER_9>She was never impressed by the fame or money, at least not enough to claim me.

00:16:24.416 --> 00:16:26.176

<v SPEAKER_8>And what about your father?

00:16:26.176 --> 00:16:34.556

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, he wasn't around when I was a kid, but he did pop up after he saw me on the Ed Sullivan show.

00:16:34.556 --> 00:16:37.816

<v SPEAKER_9>Our relationship was transactional, you know?

00:16:37.816 --> 00:16:40.976

<v SPEAKER_9>But at least I had one with him.

00:16:40.976 --> 00:16:41.676

<v SPEAKER_8>So who raised you?

00:16:42.616 --> 00:16:46.296

<v SPEAKER_9>My grandmother raised me until I was a teenager.

00:16:46.296 --> 00:16:49.976

<v SPEAKER_9>She kicked me out of her house when I was...

00:16:49.976 --> 00:16:52.756

<v SPEAKER_9>I don't remember how old I was.

00:16:52.756 --> 00:16:54.536

<v SPEAKER_8>Why did she kick you out?

00:16:54.536 --> 00:16:58.376

<v SPEAKER_9>I have to admit, I was a handful.

00:16:58.376 --> 00:17:06.816

<v SPEAKER_9>She put up with most of my shenanigans, but catching me and Joanne together was something she couldn't put up with.

00:17:06.836 --> 00:17:08.496

<v SPEAKER_8>I see.

00:17:08.496 --> 00:17:09.916

<v SPEAKER_8>I'm really sorry you had to go through that.

00:17:10.956 --> 00:17:12.916

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, no, it's okay.

00:17:12.916 --> 00:17:14.056

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm okay.

00:17:14.056 --> 00:17:15.296

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm more than okay.

00:17:15.296 --> 00:17:17.736

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm blessed and highly favored.

00:17:18.896 --> 00:17:23.956

<v SPEAKER_8>So, well, where did you go after your grandmothers?

00:17:23.956 --> 00:17:29.096

<v SPEAKER_9>For years, it was just me and Joanne running around getting into trouble.

00:17:29.096 --> 00:17:30.956

<v SPEAKER_9>Then the trouble led me to Hollywood.

00:17:30.956 --> 00:17:35.436

<v SPEAKER_9>All of a sudden, I had all this attention.

00:17:35.436 --> 00:17:37.656

<v SPEAKER_9>I wasn't used to that and I didn't understand it.

00:17:38.676 --> 00:17:43.376

<v SPEAKER_9>It's not like I was a great singer, not like Sarah, you know, Sarah Vaughn.

00:17:43.376 --> 00:17:45.936

<v SPEAKER_9>Look up if you don't know who she is.

00:17:45.936 --> 00:17:47.856

<v SPEAKER_9>I wasn't a great actress either.

00:17:47.856 --> 00:17:50.836

<v SPEAKER_9>I couldn't do what Diane Sands was doing.

00:17:50.836 --> 00:17:52.396

<v SPEAKER_9>Look up too.

00:17:53.516 --> 00:17:55.776

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm not the kindest person.

00:17:55.776 --> 00:18:02.096

<v SPEAKER_9>I've gotten better with time and prayer, but back then, I was a real pain to be around.

00:18:02.096 --> 00:18:04.556

<v SPEAKER_9>And everybody still wanted to be in my orbit.

00:18:05.096 --> 00:18:07.956

<v SPEAKER_9>They all wanted something from me.

00:18:12.416 --> 00:18:13.816

<v SPEAKER_9>But not Ella.

00:18:14.836 --> 00:18:17.736

<v SPEAKER_9>She really loved me.

00:18:17.736 --> 00:18:21.596

<v SPEAKER_9>For the life of me, I couldn't understand why.

00:18:21.596 --> 00:18:25.396

<v SPEAKER_9>I was insecure about a lot of things back then.

00:18:25.396 --> 00:18:29.096

<v SPEAKER_9>So I couldn't see what Ella saw in me.

00:18:32.076 --> 00:18:36.476

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't have anything to wear to this party with all your fancy friends.

00:18:36.476 --> 00:18:38.736

<v SPEAKER_10>Here, try this dress on.

00:18:38.736 --> 00:18:39.856

<v SPEAKER_10>It should fit you.

00:18:39.856 --> 00:18:41.336

<v SPEAKER_10>If not, we can go shopping.

00:18:41.336 --> 00:18:42.116

<v SPEAKER_11>God, no.

00:18:42.116 --> 00:18:44.556

<v SPEAKER_11>Let's not do that.

00:18:44.556 --> 00:18:45.116

<v SPEAKER_11>No.

00:18:45.116 --> 00:18:49.036

<v SPEAKER_11>No.

00:18:49.036 --> 00:18:56.136

<v SPEAKER_11>Why are these things so hard to put on?

00:18:56.216 --> 00:18:57.776

<v SPEAKER_11>Okay.

00:18:57.816 --> 00:18:59.216

<v SPEAKER_11>I got it on.

00:18:59.216 --> 00:19:02.056

<v SPEAKER_10>I love the color red on you.

00:19:02.076 --> 00:19:04.336

<v SPEAKER_11>It's not exactly my style, but...

00:19:04.336 --> 00:19:05.956

<v SPEAKER_10>You look amazing.

00:19:05.956 --> 00:19:07.016

<v SPEAKER_6>I do?

00:19:07.016 --> 00:19:07.616

<v SPEAKER_10>Yes, darling.

00:19:07.616 --> 00:19:09.576

<v SPEAKER_10>Don't you think so?

00:19:09.576 --> 00:19:11.796

<v SPEAKER_10>I have the perfect shoes for this.

00:19:11.796 --> 00:19:13.556

<v SPEAKER_10>Try these heels on.

00:19:15.116 --> 00:19:16.916

<v SPEAKER_10>Don't they just look divine?

00:19:16.916 --> 00:19:17.556

<v SPEAKER_10>Like they'll hurt.

00:19:26.786 --> 00:19:28.486

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, we need to leave.

00:19:28.486 --> 00:19:29.606

<v SPEAKER_11>Leave?

00:19:29.606 --> 00:19:31.726

<v SPEAKER_11>We just arrived not too long ago.

00:19:31.726 --> 00:19:33.386

<v SPEAKER_10>Shit, they have to render.

00:19:33.386 --> 00:19:34.686

<v SPEAKER_12>Don't who?

00:19:34.686 --> 00:19:36.986

<v SPEAKER_10>Stand in front of me so she doesn't see me here.

00:19:37.006 --> 00:19:38.626

<v SPEAKER_11>Who are you talking?

00:19:47.873 --> 00:19:49.913

<v SPEAKER_10>Why are you saying her full name like that?

00:19:49.913 --> 00:19:53.013

<v SPEAKER_12>Oh, is she one of the women you slept with?

00:19:53.013 --> 00:19:54.413

<v SPEAKER_10>Hell no.

00:19:54.413 --> 00:19:59.913

<v SPEAKER_10>I would rather remarry my ex-husband and honor our vows for the rest of my life than spend a single second with that woman.

00:20:03.513 --> 00:20:05.793

<v SPEAKER_10>I know you're not singing her song right now.

00:20:05.793 --> 00:20:08.973

<v SPEAKER_11>What do you have against Dorinda Rivers?

00:20:08.973 --> 00:20:11.233

<v SPEAKER_10>Would you stop singing her entire name like that?

00:20:11.233 --> 00:20:12.833

<v SPEAKER_12>Hey, could you calm down?

00:20:12.833 --> 00:20:14.053

<v SPEAKER_10>I can't.

00:20:14.053 --> 00:20:14.673

<v SPEAKER_10>I need a drink.

00:20:16.973 --> 00:20:18.233

<v SPEAKER_12>Shit!

00:20:18.233 --> 00:20:19.353

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine!

00:20:19.353 --> 00:20:21.413

<v SPEAKER_9>Wait, mush!

00:20:21.473 --> 00:20:23.313

<v SPEAKER_12>Shoot!

00:20:23.373 --> 00:20:24.953

<v SPEAKER_12>Stuck!

00:20:24.953 --> 00:20:26.013

<v SPEAKER_11>Dammit!

00:20:26.013 --> 00:20:27.853

<v SPEAKER_2>Do you need some help?

00:20:27.853 --> 00:20:29.393

<v SPEAKER_14>Here, grab my hand.

00:20:34.857 --> 00:20:35.957

<v SPEAKER_14>You all right?

00:20:35.957 --> 00:20:36.797

<v SPEAKER_12>Yes.

00:20:36.797 --> 00:20:39.397

<v SPEAKER_11>These shoes are just so damn beautiful.

00:20:39.397 --> 00:20:41.357

<v SPEAKER_14>Just like you are.

00:20:41.357 --> 00:20:42.657

<v SPEAKER_14>I'm Ruby.

00:20:42.657 --> 00:20:43.837

<v SPEAKER_4>Ella.

00:20:43.837 --> 00:20:46.897

<v SPEAKER_14>I love that name and your dress.

00:20:46.897 --> 00:20:47.977

<v SPEAKER_11>Not once.

00:20:47.977 --> 00:20:49.177

<v SPEAKER_11>It's not mine.

00:20:49.177 --> 00:20:53.317

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't normally dress like this.

00:20:55.077 --> 00:20:57.077

<v SPEAKER_11>It's not my style.

00:20:57.077 --> 00:21:00.777

<v SPEAKER_14>Well, there is nothing wrong with changing things up every now and again.

00:21:00.777 --> 00:21:03.277

<v SPEAKER_14>Are you here with anyone?

00:21:03.317 --> 00:21:03.777

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:21:04.077 --> 00:21:04.937

<v SPEAKER_11>Maya.

00:21:04.937 --> 00:21:06.237

<v SPEAKER_11>Here she comes.

00:21:06.237 --> 00:21:08.177

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, I got you a drink.

00:21:08.177 --> 00:21:09.577

<v SPEAKER_12>Thank you.

00:21:09.577 --> 00:21:11.837

<v SPEAKER_10>You care to introduce me to your friend?

00:21:11.837 --> 00:21:12.857

<v SPEAKER_14>I'm Ruby.

00:21:13.097 --> 00:21:15.877

<v SPEAKER_14>Lorraine, I must say I am a big fan.

00:21:15.877 --> 00:21:17.377

<v SPEAKER_10>I bet.

00:21:17.377 --> 00:21:19.177

<v SPEAKER_10>I think we should get going.

00:21:19.177 --> 00:21:21.537

<v SPEAKER_10>Folks are saying it's supposed to rain soon.

00:21:21.537 --> 00:21:22.657

<v SPEAKER_11>It's nice meeting you, Ruby.

00:21:33.157 --> 00:21:35.757

<v SPEAKER_11>I didn't think it stormed like this in LA.

00:21:38.417 --> 00:21:40.877

<v SPEAKER_11>Are you really not going to speak to me?

00:21:40.877 --> 00:21:45.877

<v SPEAKER_10>I thought you might be tired of talking, since you did so much of it with that Dorinda.

00:21:45.877 --> 00:21:48.697

<v SPEAKER_11>You never told me not to speak to her.

00:21:48.697 --> 00:21:52.977

<v SPEAKER_11>You know, I still do not know why you have a problem with Dorinda Rivers.

00:21:52.977 --> 00:21:55.337

<v SPEAKER_11>She seems nice.

00:21:55.337 --> 00:21:57.317

<v SPEAKER_10>Nice?

00:21:57.317 --> 00:22:00.497

<v SPEAKER_10>That other woman you spent a lot of time talking to seemed nice.

00:22:01.697 --> 00:22:02.957

<v SPEAKER_10>Real nice.

00:22:05.217 --> 00:22:07.317

<v SPEAKER_9>You're right.

00:22:07.317 --> 00:22:09.417

<v SPEAKER_11>She was nice.

00:22:09.417 --> 00:22:10.017

<v SPEAKER_1>She's...

00:22:10.017 --> 00:22:11.137

<v SPEAKER_10>What?

00:22:11.137 --> 00:22:13.397

<v SPEAKER_9>She was helpful.

00:22:13.397 --> 00:22:22.417

<v SPEAKER_11>Unlike that person who disappeared to drink the night away while leaving me by myself in unwalkable shoes at a party where I don't know anyone.

00:22:25.417 --> 00:22:27.677

<v SPEAKER_10>When you're in New York, are you fucking other people?

00:22:31.577 --> 00:22:33.017

<v SPEAKER_9>No.

00:22:33.017 --> 00:22:34.597

<v SPEAKER_11>Not right now.

00:22:34.597 --> 00:22:36.057

<v SPEAKER_10>Not right now.

00:22:37.897 --> 00:22:43.217

<v SPEAKER_10>Just when I started to think we can have a fucking future, you want to go fuck other women.

00:22:43.217 --> 00:22:44.577

<v SPEAKER_10>Go ahead, then.

00:22:44.577 --> 00:22:46.057

<v SPEAKER_10>Never mind what we have.

00:22:46.057 --> 00:22:47.957

<v SPEAKER_10>Never mind me bringing you into my home.

00:22:47.957 --> 00:22:50.817

<v SPEAKER_11>The home you share with someone else?

00:22:50.817 --> 00:22:52.357

<v SPEAKER_11>Someone you're marrying?

00:22:54.477 --> 00:22:58.477

<v SPEAKER_11>You can't expect me to just sit around and wait for you to pop up as you please.

00:22:58.477 --> 00:22:59.717

<v SPEAKER_11>I have a life, too.

00:22:59.717 --> 00:23:08.477

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, it's a good thing that the driver will be here any minute to take you to the airport, so you can get back to your precious little life.

00:23:08.477 --> 00:23:09.097

<v SPEAKER_10>Shit!

00:23:09.097 --> 00:23:10.477

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella!

00:23:10.477 --> 00:23:11.377

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm here.

00:23:11.377 --> 00:23:12.437

<v SPEAKER_10>I can't see you.

00:23:12.437 --> 00:23:14.437

<v SPEAKER_3>Do you have a flashlight?

00:23:14.437 --> 00:23:16.097

<v SPEAKER_10>I don't know where Sean keeps them.

00:23:16.097 --> 00:23:17.837

<v SPEAKER_12>These are things you should know.

00:23:17.837 --> 00:23:21.877

<v SPEAKER_10>Could you keep your self-righteous comments to your damn self for once?

00:23:23.577 --> 00:23:24.517

<v SPEAKER_10>Here we go.

00:23:24.517 --> 00:23:25.677

<v SPEAKER_10>A candle.

00:23:27.457 --> 00:23:27.997

<v SPEAKER_10>That's better.

00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:39.849

<v SPEAKER_11>You're not going to offer me a smoke?

00:23:39.849 --> 00:23:41.589

<v SPEAKER_10>Here.

00:23:41.589 --> 00:23:43.649

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't want to argue.

00:23:43.649 --> 00:23:46.969

<v SPEAKER_11>This isn't how I want to end my trip.

00:23:46.969 --> 00:23:49.009

<v SPEAKER_10>This ain't what I want either.

00:23:49.009 --> 00:23:51.669

<v SPEAKER_11>What do you want?

00:23:51.669 --> 00:23:55.169

<v SPEAKER_11>Don't, don't, don't ignore me, Lorraine.

00:23:56.409 --> 00:23:58.369

<v SPEAKER_12>What is it that you want?

00:23:58.369 --> 00:23:59.609

<v SPEAKER_10>What do you think I want?

00:23:59.609 --> 00:24:01.769

<v SPEAKER_11>I won't know unless you tell me.

00:24:01.769 --> 00:24:03.769

<v SPEAKER_10>I just want you to be happy, Ella.

00:24:03.769 --> 00:24:06.049

<v SPEAKER_10>I want you to be happy more than I wanted for myself.

00:24:07.409 --> 00:24:09.309

<v SPEAKER_10>But I can't give you that.

00:24:09.309 --> 00:24:11.169

<v SPEAKER_11>You already bring me happiness.

00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:13.889

<v SPEAKER_11>So much of it.

00:24:16.009 --> 00:24:17.989

<v SPEAKER_11>How can I make you?

00:24:24.492 --> 00:24:25.912

<v SPEAKER_10>What if you moved here?

00:24:25.972 --> 00:24:30.232

<v SPEAKER_10>LA is warmer, the air is fresher, and the food is too.

00:24:30.232 --> 00:24:33.752

<v SPEAKER_10>Y'all even got a BLC chapter here.

00:24:33.752 --> 00:24:35.252

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm serious.

00:24:35.252 --> 00:24:36.792

<v SPEAKER_10>We'd be closer to each other.

00:24:36.792 --> 00:24:38.692

<v SPEAKER_12>I can't just pick up and move.

00:24:38.692 --> 00:24:39.992

<v SPEAKER_10>Why not?

00:24:39.992 --> 00:24:41.392

<v SPEAKER_10>Money won't be an issue.

00:24:41.392 --> 00:24:42.392

<v SPEAKER_10>I can help with that.

00:24:42.392 --> 00:24:44.112

<v SPEAKER_11>Not everything is about money.

00:24:44.112 --> 00:24:46.432

<v SPEAKER_11>I have a life in New York.

00:24:46.432 --> 00:24:48.672

<v SPEAKER_10>Then you can have one here.

00:24:48.672 --> 00:24:50.132

<v SPEAKER_11>And what about Sean?

00:24:50.132 --> 00:24:51.812

<v SPEAKER_10>Forget Sean.

00:24:51.812 --> 00:24:53.232

<v SPEAKER_10>Why do you always bring him up?

00:24:53.812 --> 00:24:55.452

<v SPEAKER_11>Because I'm not delusional.

00:24:55.452 --> 00:25:01.292

<v SPEAKER_11>You want me to move all the way across the country to get caught up in your life, the one you let some man run.

00:25:01.292 --> 00:25:03.912

<v SPEAKER_10>And you were afraid I would get tired of you?

00:25:04.932 --> 00:25:07.452

<v SPEAKER_10>I told you it would be the other way around.

00:25:07.452 --> 00:25:09.452

<v SPEAKER_11>I can't get tired of you, Lorraine.

00:25:09.452 --> 00:25:12.672

<v SPEAKER_11>It's just my family's on the East Coast.

00:25:12.672 --> 00:25:15.732

<v SPEAKER_11>And I'm building something with my comrades there.

00:25:15.832 --> 00:25:18.952

<v SPEAKER_11>I can't just abandon them for...

00:25:18.952 --> 00:25:19.272

<v SPEAKER_10>For me.

00:25:25.157 --> 00:25:27.337

<v SPEAKER_10>What if I moved to New York?

00:25:27.337 --> 00:25:32.477

<v SPEAKER_10>We can get a place upstate, away from the city, and all the people.

00:25:32.477 --> 00:25:37.637

<v SPEAKER_11>That would make me incredibly happy, but you know what you'd have to do for that to be possible, right?

00:25:39.217 --> 00:25:40.997

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, praise God.

00:25:40.997 --> 00:25:42.717

<v SPEAKER_10>The power's back on.

00:25:44.457 --> 00:25:46.337

<v SPEAKER_10>That's your driver.

00:25:46.337 --> 00:25:47.997

<v SPEAKER_10>He'll take you to the airport.

00:25:49.997 --> 00:25:51.577

<v SPEAKER_11>I wish you were flying back with me.

00:25:51.577 --> 00:25:56.857

<v SPEAKER_11>The way here was scary enough, and you helped me the entire time.

00:25:56.857 --> 00:26:00.997

<v SPEAKER_10>You'll just have to find someone else to hold your hand this time.

00:26:00.997 --> 00:26:02.557

<v SPEAKER_10>That shouldn't be hard.

00:26:03.577 --> 00:26:05.057

<v SPEAKER_10>People often take a liking to you.

00:26:11.094 --> 00:26:13.494

<v SPEAKER_10>I should get ready for my show.

00:26:13.494 --> 00:26:15.274

<v SPEAKER_10>You should get going before you miss your flight.

00:26:36.103 --> 00:26:39.663

<v SPEAKER_10>Thank all y'all for coming out, despite the stormy weather tonight.

00:30:24.705 --> 00:30:27.505

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening to Red for Revolution.

00:30:27.505 --> 00:30:35.065

<v SPEAKER_4>We hope this episode encourages you to capaciously imagine what radical love looks like for you.

00:30:35.065 --> 00:30:42.745

<v SPEAKER_4>Red for Revolution was created, written and directed by Jana Naomi Smith with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:30:42.745 --> 00:30:46.705

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:30:46.705 --> 00:30:55.905

<v SPEAKER_4>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith and Meta Mana Media and produced by Liz McBee.

00:30:55.905 --> 00:31:01.865

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode featured performances by Jordan Hull as Jazmine James, S.

00:31:01.865 --> 00:31:30.385

<v SPEAKER_4>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, Present Day, Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, Present Day, Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni in the 1970s, Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali in the 1970s, Jennifer Beals as Suzanne Sands, David Alan Graf as Pilot, and Ashley J.

00:31:30.385 --> 00:31:32.445

<v SPEAKER_4>Hobbs as Ruby.

00:31:32.525 --> 00:31:36.945

<v SPEAKER_4>This is Adrienne Marie Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:31:36.945 --> 00:31:42.085

<v SPEAKER_4>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrian Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:31:42.085 --> 00:31:43.325

<v SPEAKER_4>Williams.

00:31:43.325 --> 00:31:48.705

<v SPEAKER_14>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the managing producer.

00:31:48.705 --> 00:31:52.185

<v SPEAKER_14>Audrey Mardavich is the executive producer.

00:31:52.185 --> 00:32:02.525

<v SPEAKER_14>Red for Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited-run artist-owned series from new and original voices.

00:32:02.525 --> 00:32:07.385

<v SPEAKER_14>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:07.385 --> 00:32:10.285

<v SPEAKER_4>Our Red for Revolution band includes Tammy L.

00:32:10.285 --> 00:32:23.105

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute, and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:32:24.105 --> 00:32:27.925

<v SPEAKER_4>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:32:27.925 --> 00:32:31.225

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:32:31.225 --> 00:32:42.745

<v SPEAKER_4>The music featured in this episode includes Stormy Weather written by Harold Arlen, performed by Renée Wilson and the Red for Revolution band.

00:32:42.745 --> 00:32:48.665

<v SPEAKER_4>The team behind Red for Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:32:48.665 --> 00:32:55.005

<v SPEAKER_4>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforrevolution.com.

00:32:56.625 --> 00:33:00.045

<v SPEAKER_4>This has been your sonic goddess, Adrian Marie Brown.

00:33:00.045 --> 00:33:00.865

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening.

00:33:09.991 --> 00:33:12.071

<v SPEAKER_12>Radiotopia, from PRX.

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:05.800

<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

00:00:09.780 --> 00:00:11.720

<v SPEAKER_2>Hey there, it's Robin from PRX.

00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:19.120

<v SPEAKER_2>And I don't know about you, but with food prices as high as they are right now, I'm really looking to up my game with home cooking this year.

00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:26.960

<v SPEAKER_2>And to help us on our culinary journey, I cannot recommend enough one of our newer Radiotopia shows, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb.

00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:33.340

<v SPEAKER_2>Kenji and Deb are Jake Kenji, Lopez Ault and Deb Perlman, two of the best home cooks out there.

00:00:33.340 --> 00:00:42.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Maybe you've seen Kenji's YouTube channel or Deb's iconic blog, Smitten Kitchen, and between them they have seven New York Times best selling cookbooks.

00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:45.360

<v SPEAKER_2>They've helped millions of people eat better at home.

00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:56.960

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm a big meal planner, so whatever is on tap for the week, I always make sure to check Deb and Kenji's recipes before I shop and before I cook, because I don't have the time or money to make big kitchen mistakes.

00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:04.540

<v SPEAKER_2>Thanks to Kenji, I know to coat my chicken in mayo before grilling, and I swear by Deb's brisket every holiday.

00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:16.280

<v SPEAKER_2>On the recipe, Kenji and Deb talk about the essential ingredients and techniques of a beloved everyday dish, say macaroni and cheese or meatballs, little things that really make a dish shang.

00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:21.040

<v SPEAKER_2>Beware, they have very different styles and sometimes duke it out over methods.

00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:25.360

<v SPEAKER_2>You'll have to figure out what works for you, and as a result, you'll cook and eat better.

00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.620

<v SPEAKER_2>From Radiotopia from PRX, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb.

00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:33.220

<v SPEAKER_2>Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts.

00:01:37.100 --> 00:01:41.120

<v SPEAKER_3>Radiotopia Presents is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:45.300

<v SPEAKER_3>Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash?

00:01:45.300 --> 00:01:50.680

<v SPEAKER_3>Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies.

00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:52.820

<v SPEAKER_3>Try it at progressive.com.

00:01:52.820 --> 00:01:59.500

<v SPEAKER_3>Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Potential Savings Will Vary, Not Available In All States.

00:01:59.500 --> 00:02:08.080

<v SPEAKER_4>I wish to live because life has within it that which is good, that which is beautiful, and that which is love.

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:16.920

<v SPEAKER_4>Therefore, since I have known all of these things, I have found them to be reason enough, and I wish to live.

00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:26.620

<v SPEAKER_4>Moreover, because this is so, I wish others to live for generations and generations and generations and generations.

00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:29.100

<v SPEAKER_4>Lorraine Hansberry.

00:02:29.100 --> 00:02:35.440

<v SPEAKER_4>This is Adrienne Marie Brown, and you are listening to Red for Revolution, the audio drama.

00:02:35.440 --> 00:02:42.500

<v SPEAKER_4>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

00:02:42.500 --> 00:02:44.520

<v SPEAKER_4>A quick content warning.

00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:52.420

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode contains adult content and features references to substance abuse and suicidal ideation.

00:02:52.420 --> 00:02:54.620

<v SPEAKER_4>Listener discretion advised.

00:02:54.620 --> 00:02:58.820

<v SPEAKER_4>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

00:03:00.980 --> 00:03:08.440

<v SPEAKER_4>Last episode, Present Day, Ella and Lorraine opened up to Jazmine about their respective insecurities.

00:03:08.440 --> 00:03:15.000

<v SPEAKER_4>Subsequently, Jazmine struggled with self-acceptance amidst a tense argument with her mother.

00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:20.680

<v SPEAKER_4>Meanwhile, in 1971, Ella and Lorraine argued about their future.

00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:25.900

<v SPEAKER_4>Will they be able to heal their wounds and rekindle their romance?

00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:26.920

<v SPEAKER_4>Our story continues.

00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:44.319

<v SPEAKER_5>So I told Adrian, the girl I like, about how I felt about her.

00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:45.939

<v SPEAKER_6>And?

00:03:45.939 --> 00:03:47.679

<v SPEAKER_7>She likes me too.

00:03:47.679 --> 00:03:51.979

<v SPEAKER_6>You see, your grandmother knows what she's talking about.

00:03:51.979 --> 00:03:59.419

<v SPEAKER_5>But she doesn't see the point in exploring anything just for us to part ways when we go to college.

00:03:59.419 --> 00:04:01.599

<v SPEAKER_6>What college is she going to?

00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:03.099

<v SPEAKER_5>Columbia.

00:04:03.099 --> 00:04:04.339

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, wow.

00:04:04.339 --> 00:04:06.459

<v SPEAKER_6>Did you end up applying there?

00:04:06.459 --> 00:04:07.179

<v SPEAKER_5>Yeah.

00:04:07.179 --> 00:04:08.159

<v SPEAKER_5>And I got in.

00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.179

<v SPEAKER_5>But I didn't accept because you told me not to go there.

00:04:12.179 --> 00:04:16.139

<v SPEAKER_5>And now Adrian is going to be in New York while I'm thousands of miles away.

00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:17.319

<v SPEAKER_6>Wait, wait.

00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:19.759

<v SPEAKER_6>I didn't tell you not to go.

00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:24.539

<v SPEAKER_6>I just said I didn't have a positive experience with Columbia.

00:04:24.539 --> 00:04:25.719

<v SPEAKER_5>And why was that?

00:04:25.719 --> 00:04:26.759

<v SPEAKER_6>Jaz, it was the 70s.

00:04:28.299 --> 00:04:31.019

<v SPEAKER_6>I wasn't exactly wanted on that campus.

00:04:36.667 --> 00:04:38.527

<v SPEAKER_5>April 1st, 1972.

00:04:39.707 --> 00:04:42.347

<v SPEAKER_5>I can't believe I got into Columbia.

00:04:42.347 --> 00:04:45.227

<v SPEAKER_5>I for sure thought they'd reject me.

00:04:45.227 --> 00:04:47.847

<v SPEAKER_5>Looks like I'll be staying home for post-grad.

00:04:47.847 --> 00:04:49.007

<v SPEAKER_5>This is good.

00:04:49.007 --> 00:04:52.447

<v SPEAKER_5>I can stick around to help mama with daddy's recovery.

00:04:52.447 --> 00:04:56.967

<v SPEAKER_5>His health concerns me, but he doesn't seem to be slowing down.

00:04:56.967 --> 00:05:00.027

<v SPEAKER_5>If he isn't worried, I guess I shouldn't be.

00:05:00.027 --> 00:05:07.527

<v SPEAKER_5>And me and my comrades can keep up the work we've been doing and somehow I'll manage to get my PhD with everything going on.

00:05:07.527 --> 00:05:10.707

<v SPEAKER_5>The road ahead looks daunting, but this is good news.

00:05:10.707 --> 00:05:13.307

<v SPEAKER_5>And good news doesn't come by often.

00:05:13.307 --> 00:05:16.567

<v SPEAKER_5>So I plan on reveling in this for as long as I can.

00:05:29.603 --> 00:05:31.703

<v SPEAKER_9>Nice to meet you, Dean McKenna.

00:05:31.703 --> 00:05:32.423

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm Ella.

00:05:32.423 --> 00:05:34.503

<v SPEAKER_10>Ali, I know.

00:05:34.503 --> 00:05:35.763

<v SPEAKER_10>Have a seat.

00:05:37.543 --> 00:05:39.223

<v SPEAKER_9>Ella Ali.

00:05:39.223 --> 00:05:42.823

<v SPEAKER_10>So tell me the reason for your interest in our fine institution.

00:05:42.823 --> 00:05:45.003

<v SPEAKER_9>I studied literature at Howard University.

00:05:45.003 --> 00:05:48.643

<v SPEAKER_9>While there, my love for words blossomed.

00:05:48.643 --> 00:05:51.783

<v SPEAKER_9>I have an admiration for thinkers.

00:05:51.783 --> 00:05:55.943

<v SPEAKER_9>Columbia is an excellent place to study for someone as passionate about thought as I.

00:05:56.983 --> 00:06:01.103

<v SPEAKER_9>A number of great philosophers, writers studied here and even teach here.

00:06:01.103 --> 00:06:02.903

<v SPEAKER_10>I see.

00:06:02.903 --> 00:06:08.943

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, before we can officially admit you, I must ask you a few questions.

00:06:08.943 --> 00:06:11.103

<v SPEAKER_9>I was already sent an acceptance letter.

00:06:11.103 --> 00:06:15.583

<v SPEAKER_10>That was sent prematurely, meaning before it was scheduled to...

00:06:15.583 --> 00:06:18.363

<v SPEAKER_9>I understand what prematurely means.

00:06:18.363 --> 00:06:22.383

<v SPEAKER_10>Some of our faculty and students have expressed concerns about your politics.

00:06:22.883 --> 00:06:28.223

<v SPEAKER_9>This is academia, the one place my politics shouldn't really be of anyone's concern.

00:06:28.223 --> 00:06:31.163

<v SPEAKER_10>There's fear that you would incite violence.

00:06:31.163 --> 00:06:34.063

<v SPEAKER_9>I'll assure you, I am not one to incite violence.

00:06:34.063 --> 00:06:36.563

<v SPEAKER_9>My mission has been to put an end to it.

00:06:36.563 --> 00:06:44.383

<v SPEAKER_10>Yet after you toured our campus last week, many students sent letters expressing that your presence would compromise their safety.

00:06:46.283 --> 00:06:53.043

<v SPEAKER_9>If I do attend this fine university, I will be one of less than what?

00:06:53.043 --> 00:06:56.103

<v SPEAKER_9>A handful of black students present?

00:06:56.103 --> 00:07:00.023

<v SPEAKER_9>Yet I'm the one who poses a threat.

00:07:00.023 --> 00:07:02.763

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm the person who would feel unsafe.

00:07:02.763 --> 00:07:06.143

<v SPEAKER_10>If you feel this way, why choose Columbia?

00:07:06.143 --> 00:07:13.423

<v SPEAKER_9>Unfortunately, Dean McKenna, folks like yourself make it so that I feel unsafe almost everywhere.

00:07:13.423 --> 00:07:15.203

<v SPEAKER_9>Columbia is no exception.

00:07:15.203 --> 00:07:18.283

<v SPEAKER_9>And I wish to study here simply because I want to be challenged.

00:07:18.683 --> 00:07:20.643

<v SPEAKER_10>As a black nationalist, do you believe that...

00:07:20.643 --> 00:07:23.263

<v SPEAKER_9>I don't consider myself a black nationalist.

00:07:23.263 --> 00:07:26.283

<v SPEAKER_10>Yet you work with a black nationalist organization.

00:07:26.283 --> 00:07:27.183

<v SPEAKER_9>That's right.

00:07:27.183 --> 00:07:28.563

<v SPEAKER_10>How does that work?

00:07:28.563 --> 00:07:29.503

<v SPEAKER_9>Just fine.

00:07:29.503 --> 00:07:34.203

<v SPEAKER_10>Do you believe it's okay to achieve freedom by any means necessary, even if that means killing?

00:07:34.203 --> 00:07:36.223

<v SPEAKER_9>No, I'm sorry.

00:07:36.223 --> 00:07:40.483

<v SPEAKER_9>But I'm not sure what these questions have to do with my candidacy.

00:07:40.483 --> 00:07:44.463

<v SPEAKER_10>Do you believe that it's okay to kill people?

00:07:44.463 --> 00:07:47.603

<v SPEAKER_9>You know, I've experienced far too much loss to believe that.

00:07:48.063 --> 00:07:56.103

<v SPEAKER_9>Not like the men whose photos adorn the walls of this very room, or the men whose names are plastered on every building here.

00:07:56.103 --> 00:08:00.443

<v SPEAKER_9>Those men have blood on their hands, yet you honor them.

00:08:00.443 --> 00:08:02.723

<v SPEAKER_10>So you believe murderers should be honored?

00:08:02.723 --> 00:08:04.483

<v SPEAKER_9>No, of course not.

00:08:04.483 --> 00:08:07.463

<v SPEAKER_9>Thou shalt not kill is my favorite commandment.

00:08:07.463 --> 00:08:08.803

<v SPEAKER_10>So you are a Christian.

00:08:08.803 --> 00:08:10.783

<v SPEAKER_10>Are you a Baptist or a Catholic?

00:08:11.223 --> 00:08:14.523

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm sorry, but can you explain where that is of your concern?

00:08:15.043 --> 00:08:18.563

<v SPEAKER_10>Many members of the Black Liberation Coalition are communists.

00:08:19.583 --> 00:08:22.163

<v SPEAKER_10>Are you too a member of the Communist Party?

00:08:22.163 --> 00:08:26.663

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm afraid you're trying to make an assessment of me that you'll never be able to make.

00:08:26.663 --> 00:08:30.883

<v SPEAKER_9>You know, thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

00:08:30.883 --> 00:08:38.823

<v SPEAKER_9>But if I'm not going to be considered for my ability to produce phenomenal work, I have somewhere else to be.

00:08:38.823 --> 00:08:41.743

<v SPEAKER_10>Meeting with your communist friends?

00:08:41.783 --> 00:08:43.103

<v SPEAKER_9>Precisely.

00:08:43.103 --> 00:08:45.003

<v SPEAKER_10>So you are a communist.

00:08:45.003 --> 00:08:46.523

<v SPEAKER_9>I am not.

00:08:46.523 --> 00:08:48.003

<v SPEAKER_9>It will never be what you think of me.

00:09:05.809 --> 00:09:11.389

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella, baby, now I know you didn't come all the way over here just to stare at your food.

00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:14.229

<v SPEAKER_9>I must have lost my appetite on the way over here.

00:09:14.229 --> 00:09:16.229

<v SPEAKER_8>Something happened on the way over here?

00:09:16.229 --> 00:09:18.509

<v SPEAKER_11>Did you show your father the flyer?

00:09:18.509 --> 00:09:20.029

<v SPEAKER_8>What flyer?

00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:23.389

<v SPEAKER_11>Columbia students put these flyers all around campus.

00:09:23.389 --> 00:09:27.829

<v SPEAKER_11>They're trying to get Ella kicked out before she gets a foot in the door.

00:09:27.829 --> 00:09:29.349

<v SPEAKER_8>Let me see.

00:09:29.349 --> 00:09:33.149

<v SPEAKER_12>Here.

00:09:33.169 --> 00:09:34.349

<v SPEAKER_8>This is a nice picture of you.

00:09:35.669 --> 00:09:37.549

<v SPEAKER_11>You do photograph well.

00:09:37.549 --> 00:09:40.369

<v SPEAKER_9>Not well enough for them to know what may happen at their school.

00:09:40.369 --> 00:09:42.389

<v SPEAKER_9>They think I'm gonna start a riot.

00:09:42.389 --> 00:09:44.349

<v SPEAKER_8>You might.

00:09:44.349 --> 00:09:46.049

<v SPEAKER_11>Howard, stop that.

00:09:46.049 --> 00:09:48.029

<v SPEAKER_11>She is not gonna start a riot.

00:09:48.029 --> 00:09:50.869

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, she'll have to change some things.

00:09:50.869 --> 00:09:54.329

<v SPEAKER_8>The school can't carry on business as usual.

00:09:54.329 --> 00:09:55.929

<v SPEAKER_8>And they know that.

00:09:55.929 --> 00:09:57.529

<v SPEAKER_8>They're just not ready for change.

00:09:57.529 --> 00:10:01.169

<v SPEAKER_8>That's why they're causing all this trouble.

00:10:01.169 --> 00:10:02.529

<v SPEAKER_9>They think I'm the trouble.

00:10:04.089 --> 00:10:07.649

<v SPEAKER_8>There ain't nothing wrong with trouble if it's for justice.

00:10:07.649 --> 00:10:10.749

<v SPEAKER_9>Looks like someone else is gonna have to stir up that trouble.

00:10:10.749 --> 00:10:13.109

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm probably gonna rescind my admission.

00:10:13.109 --> 00:10:17.049

<v SPEAKER_11>Sweetheart, you deserve a seat in those classrooms.

00:10:18.269 --> 00:10:22.129

<v SPEAKER_11>But just because you deserve it doesn't mean you should accept it.

00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:27.329

<v SPEAKER_11>They will never come across another Ella Ali.

00:10:27.329 --> 00:10:31.829

<v SPEAKER_11>But there is a whole line of colleges you can show enough to get a degree from.

00:10:31.909 --> 00:10:33.969

<v SPEAKER_11>You didn't lose anything today.

00:10:33.969 --> 00:10:35.429

<v SPEAKER_13>They did.

00:10:35.429 --> 00:10:37.349

<v SPEAKER_9>It's fine.

00:10:37.349 --> 00:10:39.089

<v SPEAKER_9>I don't care about it anymore.

00:10:39.089 --> 00:10:41.109

<v SPEAKER_8>They must care about something.

00:10:41.109 --> 00:10:44.929

<v SPEAKER_8>The way you're letting your mother's good food go to waste.

00:10:44.929 --> 00:10:47.069

<v SPEAKER_9>Take a plate home and eat it tomorrow.

00:10:47.069 --> 00:10:49.369

<v SPEAKER_9>I should have an appetite by then.

00:10:49.369 --> 00:10:51.269

<v SPEAKER_11>What else you got on your mind?

00:10:51.269 --> 00:10:54.689

<v SPEAKER_11>Now you know we can tell when something's bothering you.

00:10:54.709 --> 00:10:56.089

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm just tired.

00:10:57.629 --> 00:10:59.549

<v SPEAKER_8>What's making you tired?

00:10:59.549 --> 00:11:06.109

<v SPEAKER_9>Why is it so hard for me to get through to men and even some other women who don't see any problem with a man hitting his wife?

00:11:06.109 --> 00:11:07.049

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, all right.

00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:11.489

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, that's a topic that'll make you pick at your food.

00:11:11.509 --> 00:11:14.669

<v SPEAKER_8>Shit, I'm about to lose my appetite, too.

00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:17.489

<v SPEAKER_11>I didn't cook all this food for y'all both to waste it.

00:11:17.489 --> 00:11:23.149

<v SPEAKER_9>Sorry, I just don't feel hungry anymore.

00:11:23.229 --> 00:11:26.609

<v SPEAKER_8>I saw my father get violent with my mother.

00:11:26.609 --> 00:11:31.009

<v SPEAKER_8>I'm sure the men you're talking about saw it, too.

00:11:31.009 --> 00:11:33.389

<v SPEAKER_8>I didn't want to be like my father.

00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:37.689

<v SPEAKER_8>No one wants to be the image of their father at his worst.

00:11:37.689 --> 00:11:44.069

<v SPEAKER_8>The question is, how does a man become the man he never wanted to be?

00:11:44.069 --> 00:11:46.749

<v SPEAKER_8>I never wanted to lose my job.

00:11:46.749 --> 00:11:48.529

<v SPEAKER_8>I've lost plenty.

00:11:48.529 --> 00:11:51.469

<v SPEAKER_8>I've never wanted you or your mother to go with the house.

00:11:51.589 --> 00:11:53.689

<v SPEAKER_8>And we have many times.

00:11:53.689 --> 00:11:56.429

<v SPEAKER_9>Those are all things out of your control, Daddy.

00:11:56.429 --> 00:11:59.529

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm talking about violence that can be stopped.

00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:00.689

<v SPEAKER_9>You said it yourself.

00:12:00.689 --> 00:12:02.249

<v SPEAKER_9>You never wanted to be like your father.

00:12:02.349 --> 00:12:05.349

<v SPEAKER_9>And you never raised a hand at...

00:12:05.349 --> 00:12:07.189

<v SPEAKER_1>Have...

00:12:07.189 --> 00:12:08.889

<v SPEAKER_4>Have you?

00:12:08.889 --> 00:12:13.389

<v SPEAKER_8>I told you, I've been the man I never wanted to be.

00:12:13.389 --> 00:12:15.169

<v SPEAKER_9>Mommy, when did this happen?

00:12:16.829 --> 00:12:17.489

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't recall.

00:12:19.329 --> 00:12:23.229

<v SPEAKER_8>Look, Ella, don't you worry about these men.

00:12:23.229 --> 00:12:26.369

<v SPEAKER_8>They can't hold on to violence forever.

00:12:26.369 --> 00:12:29.409

<v SPEAKER_8>We all gotta get it out of us someday.

00:12:30.649 --> 00:12:36.709

<v SPEAKER_6>Look, I think your generation will make more progress in the anger management department than we did.

00:12:36.709 --> 00:12:41.689

<v SPEAKER_5>Did you ever have a relationship with someone who was violent?

00:12:41.689 --> 00:12:43.729

<v SPEAKER_6>What did Sophia say in that movie?

00:12:43.729 --> 00:12:44.389

<v SPEAKER_6>Hell no.

00:12:45.209 --> 00:12:50.089

<v SPEAKER_6>And it pained me to watch women and men suffer in their marriages and whatnot.

00:12:51.489 --> 00:12:54.289

<v SPEAKER_6>That's why I tried to break up so many relationships.

00:12:55.689 --> 00:12:56.749

<v SPEAKER_5>Were you ever successful?

00:13:03.833 --> 00:13:05.113

<v SPEAKER_9>Take your time, Kathy.

00:13:05.113 --> 00:13:06.973

<v SPEAKER_9>Focus on your target.

00:13:08.553 --> 00:13:10.733

<v SPEAKER_7>Ella, I don't think there's any point to this.

00:13:10.733 --> 00:13:11.973

<v SPEAKER_7>You've seen how big Joe is.

00:13:11.973 --> 00:13:14.453

<v SPEAKER_7>There's no way I can protect myself from him.

00:13:14.453 --> 00:13:16.173

<v SPEAKER_9>Why don't you just leave him?

00:13:16.173 --> 00:13:19.633

<v SPEAKER_7>Aren't you the one who always says we shouldn't give up on people?

00:13:19.633 --> 00:13:21.293

<v SPEAKER_9>Not at your own expense.

00:13:21.293 --> 00:13:26.713

<v SPEAKER_7>Well, Joe's not going to be violent forever.

00:13:26.713 --> 00:13:29.353

<v SPEAKER_9>Has he ever given you any reason to believe that?

00:13:33.313 --> 00:13:34.793

<v SPEAKER_9>I didn't think so.

00:13:36.033 --> 00:13:39.673

<v SPEAKER_7>But you have given me a reason to believe in him.

00:13:39.673 --> 00:13:41.533

<v SPEAKER_12>Me?

00:13:41.533 --> 00:13:42.513

<v SPEAKER_9>How did I do that?

00:13:42.513 --> 00:13:45.893

<v SPEAKER_7>You don't think the world's going to be unjust and hateful forever?

00:13:45.893 --> 00:13:48.773

<v SPEAKER_7>Joe will probably change before the world does.

00:13:48.773 --> 00:13:51.693

<v SPEAKER_9>Kathy, I think you're misunderstanding my beliefs.

00:13:51.693 --> 00:13:51.973

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm not-

00:13:51.973 --> 00:13:55.513

<v SPEAKER_7>Look, Ella, I'm not the first woman to deal with this.

00:13:55.513 --> 00:13:56.453

<v SPEAKER_7>I won't be the last.

00:13:57.393 --> 00:14:00.173

<v SPEAKER_7>I know Joe can be better.

00:14:00.173 --> 00:14:03.273

<v SPEAKER_7>So I'm going to see him to the other side.

00:14:03.273 --> 00:14:05.193

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm going to fight for him.

00:14:05.193 --> 00:14:07.353

<v SPEAKER_7>For us.

00:14:07.353 --> 00:14:11.993

<v SPEAKER_9>In that case, I'll show you how to defend yourself.

00:14:11.993 --> 00:14:15.453

<v SPEAKER_9>You should know how to fight for your life, too.

00:14:15.453 --> 00:14:19.993

<v SPEAKER_7>You know, I think the baby has had enough of me exercising for the day.

00:14:19.993 --> 00:14:22.673

<v SPEAKER_7>I can feel the little one kick in.

00:14:22.673 --> 00:14:23.213

<v SPEAKER_7>Do you want to feel?

00:14:23.913 --> 00:14:27.313

<v SPEAKER_9>I want to make sure you and your baby will be safe.

00:14:27.313 --> 00:14:31.973

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Ella, you don't have to worry about us.

00:14:31.973 --> 00:14:33.573

<v SPEAKER_7>You can't fix everyone.

00:14:36.233 --> 00:14:40.553

<v SPEAKER_5>Did anyone else know you were gay?

00:14:40.553 --> 00:14:44.033

<v SPEAKER_5>Do you think your mother or your father knew?

00:14:44.033 --> 00:14:48.013

<v SPEAKER_14>I don't know what my parents thought of me, or if they thought of me at all, really.

00:14:52.673 --> 00:14:54.593

<v SPEAKER_6>Hmm.

00:14:54.593 --> 00:14:57.453

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, I never told mom or daddy.

00:14:57.453 --> 00:14:59.853

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, definitely not daddy.

00:14:59.853 --> 00:15:05.353

<v SPEAKER_6>He was in and out of the hospital, but I do believe they knew.

00:15:05.353 --> 00:15:12.013

<v SPEAKER_6>I think in their own way, they made a point to show me that they knew and that it was okay.

00:15:19.510 --> 00:15:21.870

<v SPEAKER_11>So, baby, how was Joanne's funeral?

00:15:23.150 --> 00:15:24.570

<v SPEAKER_9>It was a funeral.

00:15:25.890 --> 00:15:27.910

<v SPEAKER_11>You know what I mean.

00:15:27.910 --> 00:15:29.230

<v SPEAKER_9>It was nice.

00:15:32.150 --> 00:15:33.810

<v SPEAKER_9>Just family planned.

00:15:35.650 --> 00:15:36.450

<v SPEAKER_9>Nice home-go-

00:15:42.557 --> 00:15:45.157

<v SPEAKER_11>Is the tea too hot?

00:15:45.157 --> 00:15:47.097

<v SPEAKER_14>No.

00:15:47.097 --> 00:15:50.497

<v SPEAKER_11>My dear, what's wrong?

00:15:51.637 --> 00:15:57.977

<v SPEAKER_9>When you and daddy were in the movement, did you ever fear you'd end up like...

00:15:57.977 --> 00:16:00.017

<v SPEAKER_11>Like, like what?

00:16:00.017 --> 00:16:03.257

<v SPEAKER_14>Joanne.

00:16:03.257 --> 00:16:05.437

<v SPEAKER_9>Or Martin.

00:16:05.437 --> 00:16:07.197

<v SPEAKER_9>Or Lolita or Malcolm.

00:16:22.112 --> 00:16:24.992

<v SPEAKER_11>I can't speak for your father, but no.

00:16:26.012 --> 00:16:28.112

<v SPEAKER_11>No, I didn't.

00:16:28.112 --> 00:16:35.392

<v SPEAKER_11>Every day, my mother would pray a special prayer of protection over me.

00:16:36.452 --> 00:16:44.452

<v SPEAKER_11>I pray that same prayer over you, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that you're covered.

00:16:44.452 --> 00:16:51.332

<v SPEAKER_11>Not by that racist, white, vengeful God the pastors preach about, but by the one who really loves us.

00:16:57.915 --> 00:17:00.515

<v SPEAKER_8>Look who came to visit, her old pops.

00:17:03.575 --> 00:17:05.055

<v SPEAKER_8>Ella?

00:17:05.055 --> 00:17:06.675

<v SPEAKER_8>Ella, why are you crying?

00:17:09.035 --> 00:17:10.595

<v SPEAKER_8>Dee, what's wrong with Ella?

00:17:10.595 --> 00:17:11.755

<v SPEAKER_11>It's Joanne.

00:17:12.815 --> 00:17:15.775

<v SPEAKER_11>You know how much Ella loved Joe.

00:17:15.775 --> 00:17:18.295

<v SPEAKER_8>I know, I know.

00:17:18.295 --> 00:17:21.355

<v SPEAKER_8>The grief will pass, it'll all pass.

00:17:24.515 --> 00:17:29.255

<v SPEAKER_5>Do you, uh, do you want to take a break?

00:17:31.175 --> 00:17:32.955

<v SPEAKER_14>Grandma?

00:17:32.955 --> 00:17:34.915

<v SPEAKER_6>I'm okay.

00:17:34.915 --> 00:17:36.295

<v SPEAKER_7>Here's some tissue.

00:17:37.375 --> 00:17:38.795

<v SPEAKER_6>Thank you, baby.

00:17:39.975 --> 00:17:43.835

<v SPEAKER_5>I can't believe your parents were more accepting than mine.

00:17:43.835 --> 00:17:45.915

<v SPEAKER_5>That's a little backwards.

00:17:45.915 --> 00:17:53.095

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, while I don't understand your mother's homophobia, I can't help but blame myself for that.

00:17:54.055 --> 00:18:00.895

<v SPEAKER_6>If I'd been honest about my love life, she'd probably be different.

00:18:00.895 --> 00:18:05.915

<v SPEAKER_6>I think fear caught up to me with age.

00:18:05.915 --> 00:18:09.755

<v SPEAKER_6>Back then, I was rarely afraid.

00:18:09.755 --> 00:18:10.935

<v SPEAKER_6>I was.

00:18:15.115 --> 00:18:18.655

<v SPEAKER_14>Ella wasn't afraid of anything or anyone for that matter.

00:18:22.755 --> 00:18:28.955

<v SPEAKER_14>The day some kid tried to rob us, oh, it scared the life out of me.

00:18:28.955 --> 00:18:30.395

<v SPEAKER_14>But it was nothing for Ella.

00:18:30.395 --> 00:18:32.455

<v SPEAKER_14>She really beat that sucker.

00:18:43.578 --> 00:18:45.158

<v SPEAKER_9>Hold on.

00:18:45.158 --> 00:18:46.678

<v SPEAKER_9>Your nose is bleeding.

00:18:46.678 --> 00:18:48.398

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, could you get me a towel?

00:18:48.398 --> 00:18:50.578

<v SPEAKER_15>I know you're not about to nurse his wounds.

00:18:50.578 --> 00:18:53.558

<v SPEAKER_9>Just hand me a damn towel, please.

00:18:53.558 --> 00:18:54.738

<v SPEAKER_15>Fine.

00:18:54.738 --> 00:18:55.698

<v SPEAKER_9>Does it hurt?

00:18:55.698 --> 00:18:57.258

<v SPEAKER_16>Nah.

00:18:57.258 --> 00:19:00.338

<v SPEAKER_9>Now, there's no one here you need to worry about impressing.

00:19:00.338 --> 00:19:02.958

<v SPEAKER_9>If it hurts, you can say so.

00:19:02.958 --> 00:19:04.538

<v SPEAKER_15>Here's a damn towel.

00:19:05.798 --> 00:19:06.518

<v SPEAKER_16>It don't hurt.

00:19:07.898 --> 00:19:12.118

<v SPEAKER_9>So, you need something so bad, you gotta rob folks to get?

00:19:12.118 --> 00:19:14.398

<v SPEAKER_16>Money.

00:19:14.398 --> 00:19:16.538

<v SPEAKER_16>I need that.

00:19:16.538 --> 00:19:19.778

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, could you give this kid a little something?

00:19:19.778 --> 00:19:21.858

<v SPEAKER_15>You better mean a smack to the face.

00:19:21.858 --> 00:19:25.818

<v SPEAKER_15>The hell you think I'm gonna give my money to a nigger trying to run up and rob me?

00:19:25.818 --> 00:19:28.278

<v SPEAKER_15>You must be out your damn mind.

00:19:28.278 --> 00:19:33.178

<v SPEAKER_15>You gonna have the boy thinking he can rob someone, get a hug and a fucking pound cake.

00:19:33.178 --> 00:19:34.678

<v SPEAKER_9>You're thinking backwards, Lorraine.

00:19:35.478 --> 00:19:38.978

<v SPEAKER_9>Kids wouldn't be on the street stealing if they had other options.

00:19:38.978 --> 00:19:41.878

<v SPEAKER_9>Hey, hey, hey, what's your name?

00:19:43.318 --> 00:19:45.218

<v SPEAKER_9>Mm-hmm, see, I'm not the damn feds.

00:19:45.218 --> 00:19:46.618

<v SPEAKER_9>You can tell me your name.

00:19:46.618 --> 00:19:49.598

<v SPEAKER_16>EJ, that's what most folks call me.

00:19:49.598 --> 00:19:53.158

<v SPEAKER_9>EJ, you ever heard of the Black Liberation Coalition?

00:19:53.158 --> 00:19:57.338

<v SPEAKER_16>Yeah, y'all the ones that be killing white folks.

00:19:57.338 --> 00:20:00.938

<v SPEAKER_9>Not exactly, but we feed people every week.

00:20:00.938 --> 00:20:04.278

<v SPEAKER_9>And Wednesdays, Leroy and his wife Emma are in the kitchen.

00:20:04.658 --> 00:20:06.358

<v SPEAKER_9>And they throw down.

00:20:06.358 --> 00:20:10.238

<v SPEAKER_9>And when you go down there, look for Leroy and tell him I sent you.

00:20:10.238 --> 00:20:14.898

<v SPEAKER_9>And to see about helping you find some work that's more sustainable than stealing.

00:20:17.118 --> 00:20:18.618

<v SPEAKER_15>That's my purse, Ella.

00:20:18.618 --> 00:20:19.938

<v SPEAKER_15>Why you going through my purse?

00:20:19.938 --> 00:20:25.318

<v SPEAKER_9>And I'll give a few dollars, you know, if you promise not to run up and steal from anybody else.

00:20:25.318 --> 00:20:26.398

<v SPEAKER_16>Sure.

00:20:26.398 --> 00:20:27.838

<v SPEAKER_15>Ella, are you fucking-

00:20:27.838 --> 00:20:29.618

<v SPEAKER_9>I need your word.

00:20:29.618 --> 00:20:30.978

<v SPEAKER_16>You got my word.

00:20:31.878 --> 00:20:33.258

<v SPEAKER_9>Take care now.

00:20:34.958 --> 00:20:36.518

<v SPEAKER_15>Look at that.

00:20:36.518 --> 00:20:38.858

<v SPEAKER_15>Me being robbed twice in one day.

00:20:38.858 --> 00:20:39.958

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, would you shut up.

00:20:52.106 --> 00:20:57.126

<v SPEAKER_15>Ella, you're bleeding from almost being killed by the cat who tried to rob me, us.

00:20:57.126 --> 00:20:59.826

<v SPEAKER_9>Fine, don't even feel anything.

00:20:59.826 --> 00:21:02.286

<v SPEAKER_15>The blood don't care about how you feel.

00:21:02.286 --> 00:21:05.746

<v SPEAKER_15>Here, let me put this bandage on it.

00:21:05.746 --> 00:21:09.106

<v SPEAKER_15>He done scarred your pretty face, and you just let him go.

00:21:09.106 --> 00:21:13.026

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, he got some scars too now, and a broken nose.

00:21:14.686 --> 00:21:16.126

<v SPEAKER_15>That he does.

00:21:17.646 --> 00:21:19.166

<v SPEAKER_15>I didn't know you could fight like that.

00:21:19.886 --> 00:21:23.626

<v SPEAKER_15>Shit, I might fire my security and hire you.

00:21:23.626 --> 00:21:29.166

<v SPEAKER_15>Though, I probably won't be able to afford to pay you, because you done went and gave all my money away.

00:21:29.166 --> 00:21:31.886

<v SPEAKER_9>You not ever gonna let me forget that, are you?

00:21:31.886 --> 00:21:33.226

<v SPEAKER_15>Oh, you're paying me back.

00:21:33.226 --> 00:21:35.406

<v SPEAKER_9>That's what I get for saving your life?

00:21:35.406 --> 00:21:36.266

<v SPEAKER_9>A bill?

00:21:36.266 --> 00:21:39.926

<v SPEAKER_15>That's because you saved it, and then put it right back in danger again.

00:21:39.926 --> 00:21:42.206

<v SPEAKER_9>The kid was harmless.

00:21:42.206 --> 00:21:45.246

<v SPEAKER_15>Says the one with the blood running down your face.

00:21:45.246 --> 00:21:46.246

<v SPEAKER_15>Your scar better heal.

00:21:46.746 --> 00:21:50.186

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, it's barely noticeable.

00:21:50.186 --> 00:21:53.206

<v SPEAKER_15>I'll see it, every time I kiss on you.

00:21:53.206 --> 00:21:56.426

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, if you focus on kissing, you won't have to worry.

00:22:21.675 --> 00:22:27.375

<v SPEAKER_9>My love, please, do not yawn in my face.

00:22:27.375 --> 00:22:29.295

<v SPEAKER_9>You got the voice of an angel.

00:22:29.295 --> 00:22:31.635

<v SPEAKER_9>Put your breath in the morning.

00:22:31.635 --> 00:22:32.915

<v SPEAKER_9>It's hot as hell.

00:22:32.915 --> 00:22:34.495

<v SPEAKER_15>Oh, hush up.

00:22:35.835 --> 00:22:38.875

<v SPEAKER_9>Last night was wonderful.

00:22:38.875 --> 00:22:42.015

<v SPEAKER_9>Thought you was talking about the sex.

00:22:42.015 --> 00:22:44.375

<v SPEAKER_15>I was talking about getting robbed.

00:22:44.375 --> 00:22:46.995

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm never letting you pick the hotel again.

00:22:46.995 --> 00:22:49.015

<v SPEAKER_15>We gotta make our own coffee here.

00:22:49.015 --> 00:22:50.515

<v SPEAKER_15>This place don't even got no windows.

00:22:50.895 --> 00:22:54.875

<v SPEAKER_9>You're the one who insisted on going somewhere discreet.

00:22:54.875 --> 00:22:56.275

<v SPEAKER_9>You want some coffee?

00:22:56.275 --> 00:22:57.835

<v SPEAKER_15>No.

00:22:57.835 --> 00:23:00.055

<v SPEAKER_15>I ain't in a rush to start the day.

00:23:00.055 --> 00:23:03.315

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, I'm putting on one of your robes.

00:23:03.315 --> 00:23:06.455

<v SPEAKER_15>You know I won't mind if you walk around in your birthday suit.

00:23:06.455 --> 00:23:08.615

<v SPEAKER_9>You keep it too cold for that.

00:23:10.835 --> 00:23:12.835

<v SPEAKER_9>What did you do with the-

00:23:12.835 --> 00:23:14.575

<v SPEAKER_9>with your red robe?

00:23:14.615 --> 00:23:16.435

<v SPEAKER_15>You sent one of them bags.

00:23:16.455 --> 00:23:18.235

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, Lord.

00:23:18.235 --> 00:23:20.535

<v SPEAKER_9>Why do you have so much luggage?

00:23:20.535 --> 00:23:24.035

<v SPEAKER_15>Well, you carry a lot when your life is on the road.

00:23:24.035 --> 00:23:27.335

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine.

00:23:27.335 --> 00:23:28.815

<v SPEAKER_9>What's this?

00:23:28.835 --> 00:23:29.795

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't know what Dean's studying.

00:23:35.355 --> 00:23:36.495

<v SPEAKER_15>Here go the roll.

00:23:36.495 --> 00:23:38.115

<v SPEAKER_15>Ain't this the one you like?

00:23:38.115 --> 00:23:39.715

<v SPEAKER_15>You can keep it.

00:23:39.715 --> 00:23:41.115

<v SPEAKER_15>I'll just get myself another one.

00:23:41.115 --> 00:23:44.955

<v SPEAKER_9>Are you going to explain to me what I'm looking at?

00:23:44.955 --> 00:23:47.035

<v SPEAKER_15>You can just act like you didn't see it.

00:23:47.035 --> 00:23:48.655

<v SPEAKER_9>How the hell am I supposed to do that?

00:23:48.655 --> 00:23:50.335

<v SPEAKER_15>I know you wish you didn't see it.

00:23:50.335 --> 00:23:51.555

<v SPEAKER_15>Just act like you didn't.

00:23:51.555 --> 00:23:53.595

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, I'm not a fucking actor.

00:23:53.595 --> 00:23:58.595

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine, I don't play pretend or willfully forget what's right in front of me, and you shouldn't either.

00:23:58.595 --> 00:24:00.335

<v SPEAKER_15>You don't need to worry.

00:24:00.335 --> 00:24:04.015

<v SPEAKER_15>It's just something some of the guys and I do when we get too tired on the tour.

00:24:04.955 --> 00:24:10.475

<v SPEAKER_9>If touring is making you that tired, then maybe you should slow down.

00:24:10.475 --> 00:24:13.535

<v SPEAKER_15>Baby, Sean don't know nothing about slowing down.

00:24:13.535 --> 00:24:15.495

<v SPEAKER_9>You give that man too much power.

00:24:15.495 --> 00:24:19.055

<v SPEAKER_9>He can't have that strong a hold on your life.

00:24:19.055 --> 00:24:20.255

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm going to the pool.

00:24:20.255 --> 00:24:22.575

<v SPEAKER_9>You're not going to just leave me with this poison.

00:24:22.575 --> 00:24:23.535

<v SPEAKER_15>Fine.

00:24:23.535 --> 00:24:24.215

<v SPEAKER_15>Give it to me.

00:24:24.215 --> 00:24:24.995

<v SPEAKER_12>Hell no.

00:24:24.995 --> 00:24:25.995

<v SPEAKER_12>I'm throwing this out.

00:24:25.995 --> 00:24:28.075

<v SPEAKER_15>Give me my fucking shit, Ella.

00:24:28.075 --> 00:24:29.555

<v SPEAKER_15>I paid good money for that shit.

00:24:29.555 --> 00:24:32.035

<v SPEAKER_9>Is that why you didn't want to give the kid any of your money?

00:24:32.035 --> 00:24:33.455

<v SPEAKER_9>You're spending it all on drugs?

00:24:33.875 --> 00:24:35.875

<v SPEAKER_15>I work hard for my money.

00:24:35.875 --> 00:24:37.595

<v SPEAKER_15>So hard.

00:24:37.595 --> 00:24:40.155

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes I need something to bring me back down.

00:24:40.155 --> 00:24:42.595

<v SPEAKER_9>You need it, Lorraine?

00:24:42.595 --> 00:24:45.155

<v SPEAKER_9>You just said you only do it sometimes.

00:24:45.155 --> 00:24:47.155

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes when I need it.

00:24:47.155 --> 00:24:50.455

<v SPEAKER_9>That's a problem, Lorraine.

00:24:52.595 --> 00:24:53.815

<v SPEAKER_12>My love.

00:24:55.295 --> 00:24:57.575

<v SPEAKER_12>That's a real problem.

00:24:57.575 --> 00:25:00.295

<v SPEAKER_15>Ella, you don't know nothing, alright?

00:25:00.295 --> 00:25:02.915

<v SPEAKER_15>I said it's not a big deal and it ain't.

00:25:03.315 --> 00:25:05.435

<v SPEAKER_12>Well, you can lie to your fiancé.

00:25:05.435 --> 00:25:06.775

<v SPEAKER_12>You can lie to your fans.

00:25:06.775 --> 00:25:10.795

<v SPEAKER_12>You can probably lie to your family, but you can't lie to me.

00:25:10.795 --> 00:25:12.535

<v SPEAKER_12>I see you, Lorraine.

00:25:12.535 --> 00:25:14.015

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm going to the pool.

00:25:14.015 --> 00:25:15.275

<v SPEAKER_12>Fuck the pool!

00:25:15.275 --> 00:25:18.415

<v SPEAKER_12>All these damn clothes, the money.

00:25:18.415 --> 00:25:20.455

<v SPEAKER_12>Is none of it enough?

00:25:21.635 --> 00:25:27.675

<v SPEAKER_12>You are loved by millions of people from sea to shining fucking sea.

00:25:27.675 --> 00:25:29.375

<v SPEAKER_12>The hell you need with this shit?

00:25:31.475 --> 00:25:34.795

<v SPEAKER_12>What else could you want?

00:25:34.795 --> 00:25:39.315

<v SPEAKER_12>You've seen what happened to Pidley, Marilyn, Judy.

00:25:39.315 --> 00:25:41.515

<v SPEAKER_12>Is that what you want?

00:25:41.515 --> 00:25:43.255

<v SPEAKER_12>To die?

00:25:43.255 --> 00:25:44.795

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes, yes.

00:25:48.755 --> 00:25:50.655

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes, I want to die.

00:25:57.283 --> 00:25:59.823

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes I want to go.

00:26:02.343 --> 00:26:05.783

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes I wish it was me.

00:26:07.843 --> 00:26:08.583

<v SPEAKER_15>I wish it was me.

00:26:15.208 --> 00:26:16.808

<v SPEAKER_15>Give us back, Billy.

00:26:18.308 --> 00:26:19.848

<v SPEAKER_15>Give us back, Dorothy.

00:26:19.848 --> 00:26:22.748

<v SPEAKER_15>Dinah, take me.

00:26:22.748 --> 00:26:25.008

<v SPEAKER_15>Take me.

00:26:25.008 --> 00:26:26.728

<v SPEAKER_15>So you can have Joanne.

00:26:27.768 --> 00:26:30.588

<v SPEAKER_15>That's who you wanted to be within the first place.

00:26:30.588 --> 00:26:32.748

<v SPEAKER_9>That's not how death works, Lorraine.

00:26:34.468 --> 00:26:39.808

<v SPEAKER_9>Even if it were, I still want you.

00:26:42.468 --> 00:26:43.308

<v SPEAKER_14>Joanne's gone.

00:26:44.048 --> 00:26:45.808

<v SPEAKER_12>Billy's gone.

00:26:45.808 --> 00:26:47.188

<v SPEAKER_12>Dinah's gone.

00:26:47.188 --> 00:26:49.108

<v SPEAKER_9>Dorothy, too.

00:26:49.108 --> 00:26:49.488

<v SPEAKER_14>They're all.

00:27:02.794 --> 00:27:03.574

<v SPEAKER_12>I want you here.

00:27:09.566 --> 00:27:13.926

<v SPEAKER_14>I can't explain to you what was going through my mind at the time.

00:27:13.926 --> 00:27:15.746

<v SPEAKER_14>Why I was using that mess.

00:27:16.506 --> 00:27:19.486

<v SPEAKER_14>I can't explain it to myself.

00:27:19.486 --> 00:27:20.146

<v SPEAKER_14>Not to Ella.

00:27:20.146 --> 00:27:23.686

<v SPEAKER_14>She didn't want to hear what I had to say anyway.

00:27:23.686 --> 00:27:25.706

<v SPEAKER_5>It sounds like you were depressed.

00:27:25.706 --> 00:27:27.706

<v SPEAKER_14>We didn't know nothing about that.

00:27:27.706 --> 00:27:30.046

<v SPEAKER_14>Your generation is the one with some sense.

00:27:30.046 --> 00:27:32.606

<v SPEAKER_14>We didn't have it back then.

00:27:32.606 --> 00:27:34.226

<v SPEAKER_14>I didn't know therapy.

00:27:34.226 --> 00:27:37.286

<v SPEAKER_14>I didn't know even know Jesus yet.

00:27:37.906 --> 00:27:39.966

<v SPEAKER_5>What's your favorite gospel song?

00:28:22.486 --> 00:28:25.446

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening to Red for Revolution.

00:28:25.446 --> 00:28:28.026

<v SPEAKER_4>Ask not of others, but of yourself.

00:28:28.026 --> 00:28:33.606

<v SPEAKER_4>We hope this episode inspires you to give grace to yourself so you can give it to others.

00:28:34.586 --> 00:28:42.206

<v SPEAKER_4>Red for Revolution was created, written and directed by Jana Naomi Smith, with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:28:42.206 --> 00:28:46.186

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall, and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:28:46.186 --> 00:28:55.466

<v SPEAKER_4>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith, and Meta Mana Media, and produced by Liz McBee.

00:28:55.466 --> 00:29:01.406

<v SPEAKER_4>This episode featured performances by Jordan Hull as Jazmine James, and S.

00:29:01.406 --> 00:29:06.926

<v SPEAKER_4>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, present day.

00:29:06.926 --> 00:29:11.486

<v SPEAKER_4>Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, present day.

00:29:11.486 --> 00:29:16.406

<v SPEAKER_4>Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali, in the 1970s.

00:29:16.406 --> 00:29:20.386

<v SPEAKER_4>Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni, in the 1970s.

00:29:21.866 --> 00:29:40.486

<v SPEAKER_4>Anjanu Ellis-Taylor as Delores Ali, Danny Glover as Howard Ali, Don Daniels as Sean, David Alan Graf as Dean McKenna, Carl Guzman as Kathy, and Xavier Miles Temple as Robber.

00:29:40.486 --> 00:29:44.906

<v SPEAKER_4>And this is Adrienne Murray Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:29:44.906 --> 00:29:50.046

<v SPEAKER_4>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrian Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:29:50.046 --> 00:29:51.306

<v SPEAKER_3>Williams.

00:29:51.306 --> 00:29:56.686

<v SPEAKER_13>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the managing producer.

00:29:56.686 --> 00:30:00.166

<v SPEAKER_13>Audrey Mardavich is the executive producer.

00:30:00.166 --> 00:30:10.506

<v SPEAKER_13>Red for Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited run, artist owned series from new and original voices.

00:30:10.506 --> 00:30:15.186

<v SPEAKER_13>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:30:15.626 --> 00:30:18.486

<v SPEAKER_4>Our Red for Revolution band includes Tammy L.

00:30:18.486 --> 00:30:32.246

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute, and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:30:32.246 --> 00:30:36.126

<v SPEAKER_4>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:30:36.126 --> 00:30:39.466

<v SPEAKER_4>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:30:39.466 --> 00:30:57.866

<v SPEAKER_4>The music featured in this episode includes, He Looked Beyond My Fault, written by Dottie Rambo, performed by Loretta Devine, Courtesy of Tomorrowland Music, Designer Music, Brandee-Vah Publishing, and Capitol CMG Publishing.

00:30:57.866 --> 00:31:03.786

<v SPEAKER_4>The team behind Red for Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:31:03.786 --> 00:31:10.526

<v SPEAKER_4>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforevolution.com.

00:31:11.666 --> 00:31:15.046

<v SPEAKER_4>This has been your sonic goddess, Adrienne Marie Brow.

00:31:15.046 --> 00:31:15.866

<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for listening.

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:05.780

<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

00:00:07.180 --> 00:00:12.460

<v SPEAKER_2>Can people really change for the better in life, in love, and in relationships?

00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:18.680

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm Meredith Goldstein, longtime advice columnist at the Boston Globe and host of its podcast, Love Letters.

00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:23.500

<v SPEAKER_2>In season 10 of Love Letters, we're asking one big question, can people change?

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.480

<v SPEAKER_2>And if so, how?

00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:33.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Get ready to laugh, cry, and learn as guests tell real stories about resilience, transformation, and being better at being together.

00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:37.920

<v SPEAKER_2>Listen or watch the new season of Love Letters wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.420

<v SPEAKER_3>This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Subject to credit approval, Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

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00:01:04.940 --> 00:01:06.820

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00:01:08.460 --> 00:01:12.140

<v SPEAKER_4>Radiotopia Presents is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states.

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<v SPEAKER_5>It is our duty to fight for our freedom.

00:01:33.660 --> 00:01:36.160

<v SPEAKER_5>It is our duty to win.

00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:39.400

<v SPEAKER_5>We must love each other and protect each other.

00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.640

<v SPEAKER_5>We have nothing to lose but our chains.

00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:44.120

<v SPEAKER_5>Asada Shakur.

00:01:45.880 --> 00:01:51.200

<v SPEAKER_5>This is Adrienne Marie Brown and you are listening to Red for Revolution, the audio drama.

00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:59.380

<v SPEAKER_5>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

00:01:59.380 --> 00:02:05.800

<v SPEAKER_5>This episode contains adult content and features references to domestic violence.

00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:08.360

<v SPEAKER_5>Listener discretion advised.

00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:12.640

<v SPEAKER_5>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

00:02:15.200 --> 00:02:26.560

<v SPEAKER_5>Last episode, Present Day, Lorraine opened up to Jazmine about her history of substance abuse, inspiring a conversation about grace and self-acceptance.

00:02:28.200 --> 00:02:38.680

<v SPEAKER_5>Meanwhile, back in the 70s, a younger Lorraine makes the same admission to Ella, inspiring a difficult impasse between the two.

00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:39.700

<v SPEAKER_5>Our story continues.

00:02:46.618 --> 00:02:49.458

<v SPEAKER_7>My grandmother doesn't like talking about Lorraine's substance abuse.

00:02:49.458 --> 00:02:57.418

<v SPEAKER_7>It's very triggering for her, and she doesn't use that word often or ever really, but I can tell because she starts getting impatient.

00:02:57.418 --> 00:03:01.998

<v SPEAKER_7>She gets agitated and easily distracted whenever I probe her for details.

00:03:01.998 --> 00:03:13.498

<v SPEAKER_7>I mean, since someone she loves so much struggled with substance abuse, I can only imagine the fear she has about history repeating itself, which explains why she got so freaked out about the time she caught me and Adrian smoking weed.

00:03:14.158 --> 00:03:18.538

<v SPEAKER_7>She got so upset, and I have never in my life seen her that upset.

00:03:18.538 --> 00:03:22.278

<v SPEAKER_7>She's never quick to become angry, especially not with me.

00:03:22.378 --> 00:03:26.578

<v SPEAKER_7>We usually keep things between us, but she even snitched and told my mother about the weed.

00:03:26.578 --> 00:03:31.658

<v SPEAKER_7>For better or for worse, my mom was way more upset to learn that I'm queer.

00:03:31.658 --> 00:03:35.678

<v SPEAKER_7>But hey, we love that she is destigmatizing marijuana.

00:03:35.678 --> 00:03:42.258

<v SPEAKER_7>And if she can have a change of heart about substances, then hey, she may surprise everyone and accept me after all.

00:03:42.898 --> 00:03:49.478

<v SPEAKER_7>But I am quite frustrated because grandma has been dancing around the topic of Lorraine's substance problems.

00:03:49.478 --> 00:03:54.598

<v SPEAKER_7>She says she isn't proud of the way she reacted to Lorraine's struggle with substance abuse.

00:03:54.598 --> 00:03:56.138

<v SPEAKER_7>I guess that's something.

00:03:56.138 --> 00:03:57.538

<v SPEAKER_7>But I'm gonna try to uncover more.

00:04:03.823 --> 00:04:07.803

<v SPEAKER_6>This is William Davis with News in Detail from the BDNYC Newsroom.

00:04:07.803 --> 00:04:21.763

<v SPEAKER_6>Coming up tonight, September 15, 1971, our updates on the construction of Walt Disney World, jazz singer Lorraine Giovanni arrested, President Nixon visits his alma mater, and the official casualty count of the Attica Prison Riot.

00:04:21.763 --> 00:04:25.223

<v SPEAKER_6>We'll cover all this and more on BDNY Radio.

00:04:27.063 --> 00:04:30.843

<v SPEAKER_8>Jazz singer Lorraine Giovanni was arrested last night on narcotics charges.

00:04:31.383 --> 00:04:35.023

<v SPEAKER_8>She was released on bond this morning on her own recognizance.

00:04:35.023 --> 00:04:37.063

<v SPEAKER_9>Can you turn that radio off?

00:04:37.063 --> 00:04:41.163

<v SPEAKER_9>I don't understand why you and daddy leave it on all day just to listen to bad news.

00:04:42.323 --> 00:04:45.203

<v SPEAKER_10>I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

00:04:45.203 --> 00:04:46.683

<v SPEAKER_9>Don't be.

00:04:46.683 --> 00:04:49.663

<v SPEAKER_9>Sitting in the cell will probably do her some good.

00:04:49.663 --> 00:04:50.823

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, Ella.

00:04:50.823 --> 00:04:54.203

<v SPEAKER_10>Now what good has jail done for anybody?

00:04:54.203 --> 00:04:56.163

<v SPEAKER_9>Mommy, you don't understand.

00:04:56.323 --> 00:04:59.803

<v SPEAKER_9>The woman is just so reckless.

00:05:00.483 --> 00:05:03.303

<v SPEAKER_10>People say the same thing about you.

00:05:03.303 --> 00:05:04.783

<v SPEAKER_10>You know what I tell them.

00:05:04.783 --> 00:05:05.743

<v SPEAKER_9>What?

00:05:05.743 --> 00:05:07.263

<v SPEAKER_10>She sure is.

00:05:07.263 --> 00:05:09.023

<v SPEAKER_10>And so am I.

00:05:13.603 --> 00:05:17.903

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine needs to wake up and see that the way she's living is no good for her.

00:05:17.903 --> 00:05:20.843

<v SPEAKER_10>The way she's living is no good for her.

00:05:22.063 --> 00:05:22.943

<v SPEAKER_10>Oh, girl.

00:05:22.943 --> 00:05:25.463

<v SPEAKER_10>You of all people should know better.

00:05:25.463 --> 00:05:31.123

<v SPEAKER_10>Being locked up won't do anything for your friend, and neither will all this judging you doing.

00:05:31.123 --> 00:05:33.243

<v SPEAKER_2>Good.

00:05:33.243 --> 00:05:34.523

<v SPEAKER_9>Why are you taking my drink?

00:05:34.523 --> 00:05:35.763

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm not done with that.

00:05:35.763 --> 00:05:38.563

<v SPEAKER_10>It's not good to have liquor when you're upset.

00:05:42.123 --> 00:05:46.383

<v SPEAKER_12>Oh, I'm not my best self when I'm worried.

00:05:46.383 --> 00:05:48.123

<v SPEAKER_7>What were you so worried about?

00:05:48.183 --> 00:05:57.983

<v SPEAKER_12>Lorraine and her habits started to make me feel, um...

00:05:57.983 --> 00:05:58.903

<v SPEAKER_7>Anxious?

00:05:58.903 --> 00:06:00.083

<v SPEAKER_12>Yes.

00:06:00.083 --> 00:06:05.103

<v SPEAKER_12>That and so many things.

00:06:05.103 --> 00:06:07.963

<v SPEAKER_12>But my mama was right.

00:06:07.963 --> 00:06:14.783

<v SPEAKER_12>I needed to set all that aside because it wasn't helping either one of us.

00:06:14.783 --> 00:06:16.683

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Grandma, your mom sounds really cool.

00:06:17.223 --> 00:06:18.243

<v SPEAKER_7>Both of your parents do.

00:06:18.243 --> 00:06:20.083

<v SPEAKER_7>I wish I could have met them.

00:06:20.083 --> 00:06:23.883

<v SPEAKER_12>Oh, and they would have loved to meet you.

00:06:25.083 --> 00:06:28.943

<v SPEAKER_12>I remember they were so excited to meet Lorraine.

00:06:33.603 --> 00:06:35.403

<v SPEAKER_13>Come in.

00:06:35.403 --> 00:06:36.603

<v SPEAKER_13>Ella!

00:06:36.603 --> 00:06:38.523

<v SPEAKER_9>I want to introduce you to my parents.

00:06:38.523 --> 00:06:41.683

<v SPEAKER_9>This is my mother Delores and my father Howard.

00:06:41.683 --> 00:06:43.823

<v SPEAKER_13>It is so wonderful to meet you both.

00:06:44.203 --> 00:06:46.943

<v SPEAKER_9>They have been begging me to bring them to one of your shows.

00:06:46.943 --> 00:06:49.243

<v SPEAKER_13>You know you could have done that a long time ago.

00:06:49.243 --> 00:06:53.023

<v SPEAKER_10>We are a Lorraine Giovanni household, honey.

00:06:53.023 --> 00:06:56.323

<v SPEAKER_10>After Donna passed, we couldn't get Howard to play another record.

00:06:56.323 --> 00:06:58.443

<v SPEAKER_10>She was his favorite.

00:06:58.443 --> 00:07:01.203

<v SPEAKER_10>Then you came along.

00:07:01.203 --> 00:07:04.123

<v SPEAKER_8>They know they can't get me to stop playing your records.

00:07:04.123 --> 00:07:05.963

<v SPEAKER_9>It's a bit of a problem.

00:07:05.963 --> 00:07:09.083

<v SPEAKER_10>Now, Ella, you know you listen to Lorraine just as much as your father.

00:07:09.083 --> 00:07:10.083

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella, Ms.

00:07:10.083 --> 00:07:20.743

<v SPEAKER_10>Giovanni, my daughter, like me, doesn't care for many people, but she's taken a liking to you and whoever Ella loves is family to us.

00:07:20.743 --> 00:07:22.383

<v SPEAKER_13>That is so sweet.

00:07:22.383 --> 00:07:23.663

<v SPEAKER_9>She means it.

00:07:23.663 --> 00:07:27.443

<v SPEAKER_9>She bought you food that she won't even make for me.

00:07:27.443 --> 00:07:31.763

<v SPEAKER_10>Well, my dear, you only come over when you're feeling down and don't have an appetite.

00:07:31.763 --> 00:07:35.423

<v SPEAKER_10>There's no point in slaving in the kitchen for you to let it go to waste.

00:07:35.423 --> 00:07:36.223

<v SPEAKER_13>You haven't been eating.

00:07:38.463 --> 00:07:41.683

<v SPEAKER_14>Oh, hey, I didn't mean to interrupt the party.

00:07:41.683 --> 00:07:44.123

<v SPEAKER_13>Sean, these are Ella's parents.

00:07:44.123 --> 00:07:46.083

<v SPEAKER_13>They came to see the show.

00:07:46.083 --> 00:07:46.983

<v SPEAKER_13>This is my man.

00:07:46.983 --> 00:07:50.383

<v SPEAKER_14>I'm Sean, Lorraine's fiance.

00:07:50.383 --> 00:07:52.163

<v SPEAKER_10>You're getting married?

00:07:52.163 --> 00:07:54.183

<v SPEAKER_15>Congratulations.

00:07:54.183 --> 00:07:55.023

<v SPEAKER_14>Thank you.

00:07:55.023 --> 00:07:57.003

<v SPEAKER_14>We're jumping the broom next month.

00:07:57.003 --> 00:07:57.983

<v SPEAKER_9>Next month?

00:07:57.983 --> 00:07:59.943

<v SPEAKER_10>You're a very lucky man.

00:07:59.943 --> 00:08:04.783

<v SPEAKER_13>Babe, could you show them to their seats and pick out some good ones?

00:08:04.783 --> 00:08:05.623

<v SPEAKER_14>Oh, of course.

00:08:07.103 --> 00:08:08.143

<v SPEAKER_14>Come with me.

00:08:08.143 --> 00:08:09.183

<v SPEAKER_9>You all go ahead.

00:08:09.183 --> 00:08:11.043

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm going to use the restroom.

00:08:13.703 --> 00:08:16.483

<v SPEAKER_13>Your mother really cooked me an entire feast.

00:08:16.483 --> 00:08:20.263

<v SPEAKER_13>If I eat this before the show, I won't be able to fit into my gown.

00:08:20.263 --> 00:08:22.763

<v SPEAKER_9>It's nice to see you back in the land of the free.

00:08:22.763 --> 00:08:26.643

<v SPEAKER_13>I know what you're thinking, but I wasn't using that shit.

00:08:26.643 --> 00:08:29.243

<v SPEAKER_9>Did somebody plant the drugs on you?

00:08:29.243 --> 00:08:35.623

<v SPEAKER_13>I did buy it, and I wanted to use it, but I didn't.

00:08:37.023 --> 00:08:40.023

<v SPEAKER_13>Then the police came, and you know what they do.

00:08:40.023 --> 00:08:41.203

<v SPEAKER_9>All right.

00:08:41.203 --> 00:08:43.603

<v SPEAKER_9>You can't be out of here getting yourself arrested.

00:08:45.503 --> 00:08:46.783

<v SPEAKER_9>You saw what happened to Joanne.

00:09:24.757 --> 00:09:28.037

<v SPEAKER_13>I never thought I'd see her name on one of these.

00:09:28.037 --> 00:09:30.057

<v SPEAKER_9>You picked a real nice gravestone.

00:09:31.557 --> 00:09:34.517

<v SPEAKER_9>Is that Joe's boyfriend and the baby?

00:09:34.517 --> 00:09:35.817

<v SPEAKER_13>Vincent?

00:09:35.817 --> 00:09:39.557

<v SPEAKER_16>Lorraine?

00:09:39.557 --> 00:09:42.237

<v SPEAKER_13>Vincent, it's so good to see you.

00:09:42.277 --> 00:09:45.397

<v SPEAKER_13>Oh, my darling Suzanne.

00:09:45.397 --> 00:09:48.217

<v SPEAKER_13>Oh, she's starting to look like Jojo, isn't she?

00:09:48.217 --> 00:09:51.697

<v SPEAKER_16>Lorraine, I've been meaning to thank you for everything you've done.

00:09:51.757 --> 00:09:55.597

<v SPEAKER_16>Not helping with the funeral and getting this headstone.

00:09:55.597 --> 00:09:57.377

<v SPEAKER_13>It's the least I could do.

00:09:57.377 --> 00:09:59.617

<v SPEAKER_13>Y'all are family to me.

00:09:59.617 --> 00:10:02.137

<v SPEAKER_13>I'm here to help y'all with whatever you need.

00:10:02.137 --> 00:10:03.297

<v SPEAKER_16>You mean that?

00:10:03.297 --> 00:10:04.457

<v SPEAKER_13>Of course.

00:10:07.017 --> 00:10:08.317

<v SPEAKER_16>I can't do this.

00:10:08.317 --> 00:10:12.077

<v SPEAKER_16>I need help with the baby.

00:10:13.237 --> 00:10:15.117

<v SPEAKER_16>Can you keep Suzanne?

00:10:15.117 --> 00:10:16.657

<v SPEAKER_16>You are the godmother.

00:10:16.657 --> 00:10:18.017

<v SPEAKER_13>Well, not officially.

00:10:18.017 --> 00:10:20.157

<v SPEAKER_16>It'll just be until I figure something out.

00:10:20.677 --> 00:10:24.737

<v SPEAKER_13>You know, I'm always on the road, but I can write you a check for whatever you need.

00:10:24.737 --> 00:10:27.817

<v SPEAKER_9>Looks like it needs more than money right now, Lorraine.

00:10:27.817 --> 00:10:32.317

<v SPEAKER_13>I'm not sure how much help I'd be in the baby department, Ella.

00:10:32.317 --> 00:10:34.957

<v SPEAKER_13>I don't know nothing about changing diapers.

00:10:34.957 --> 00:10:35.217

<v SPEAKER_7>Do you?

00:10:41.096 --> 00:10:46.476

<v SPEAKER_7>Today is my late grandma Joanne's birthday, and we celebrate it every year.

00:10:46.476 --> 00:10:49.336

<v SPEAKER_7>Grandma Ella makes a big deal of it.

00:10:49.336 --> 00:10:59.016

<v SPEAKER_7>You'd think my mom would too, but celebrating her dead mother's birthday seems to be a chore for her, almost like she dreads the day.

00:10:59.016 --> 00:11:02.176

<v SPEAKER_7>I wonder if my mom has always felt this way.

00:11:02.176 --> 00:11:08.716

<v SPEAKER_7>I wonder if the memories of her mother have ever brought her joy, comfort, or peace.

00:11:10.436 --> 00:11:14.216

<v SPEAKER_7>I wonder if she knows how she found herself in the care of my grandma Ella.

00:11:14.216 --> 00:11:17.416

<v SPEAKER_7>And if she doesn't, I wonder if she wants to know.

00:11:24.515 --> 00:11:27.435

<v SPEAKER_12>Jazz, do you still want me here for this part?

00:11:27.435 --> 00:11:29.735

<v SPEAKER_7>Yeah, I want to talk to both you and Mommy.

00:11:29.735 --> 00:11:33.295

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay, Mommy, can you please say your name for me?

00:11:33.295 --> 00:11:34.575

<v SPEAKER_15>Suzanne.

00:11:34.575 --> 00:11:38.915

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay, can you preface it with my name is and say your full name?

00:11:40.255 --> 00:11:42.495

<v SPEAKER_15>My name is Suzanne Sands.

00:11:42.495 --> 00:11:44.235

<v SPEAKER_3>Perfect.

00:11:44.235 --> 00:11:47.175

<v SPEAKER_17>So, today is a special day.

00:11:47.235 --> 00:11:48.395

<v SPEAKER_11>Today is...

00:11:48.395 --> 00:11:50.615

<v SPEAKER_12>Jo's heavenly birthday.

00:11:52.055 --> 00:11:54.715

<v SPEAKER_17>Do you both still feel connected to Joanne?

00:11:54.715 --> 00:11:56.315

<v SPEAKER_12>Of course.

00:11:56.315 --> 00:11:57.955

<v SPEAKER_15>Mainly through stories.

00:11:57.955 --> 00:12:04.155

<v SPEAKER_15>I was barely a year old when she passed, I don't feel connected to her in the same way your grandmother does.

00:12:04.155 --> 00:12:06.895

<v SPEAKER_7>Did you know grandma and Joanne dated?

00:12:09.435 --> 00:12:10.935

<v SPEAKER_6>No.

00:12:10.935 --> 00:12:13.075

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay.

00:12:13.075 --> 00:12:18.715

<v SPEAKER_7>Can you try to avoid audible sighs and one word responses, please?

00:12:19.995 --> 00:12:21.755

<v SPEAKER_15>I love that you're so bossy.

00:12:23.955 --> 00:12:24.835

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes.

00:12:24.835 --> 00:12:25.655

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes I love it.

00:12:25.655 --> 00:12:27.435

<v SPEAKER_15>Sometimes it's deeply irritating.

00:12:27.435 --> 00:12:31.575

<v SPEAKER_7>I think your inability to answer questions is deeply irritating.

00:12:31.575 --> 00:12:33.835

<v SPEAKER_15>No, I did not know my mother dated my dead mother.

00:12:33.835 --> 00:12:37.075

<v SPEAKER_15>I didn't find out about this until recently.

00:12:37.075 --> 00:12:38.375

<v SPEAKER_7>How did you feel when you found out?

00:12:38.835 --> 00:12:43.835

<v SPEAKER_15>I felt like I would have been fine never knowing that.

00:12:43.835 --> 00:12:45.755

<v SPEAKER_9>Hmm.

00:12:45.755 --> 00:12:52.935

<v SPEAKER_7>Would you say that you'd preferred to not have been told?

00:12:52.935 --> 00:12:54.375

<v SPEAKER_15>Yes.

00:12:54.375 --> 00:12:58.355

<v SPEAKER_7>So the one worded responses are just going to be your thing?

00:12:58.355 --> 00:13:00.095

<v SPEAKER_11>Sorry.

00:13:00.095 --> 00:13:00.895

<v SPEAKER_11>It's fine.

00:13:00.895 --> 00:13:06.435

<v SPEAKER_7>Um, well, do you wish I never told you about me being queer?

00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:15.830

<v SPEAKER_15>That's different.

00:13:15.830 --> 00:13:17.190

<v SPEAKER_7>I don't think so.

00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:18.350

<v SPEAKER_7>Why do you think so?

00:13:18.350 --> 00:13:18.730

<v SPEAKER_15>It is.

00:13:18.730 --> 00:13:19.930

<v SPEAKER_15>It's different.

00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:24.370

<v SPEAKER_15>You're my girl.

00:13:25.550 --> 00:13:28.710

<v SPEAKER_15>Look, it's not that I wish you never told me.

00:13:28.710 --> 00:13:31.810

<v SPEAKER_15>I just don't know if I needed to be told.

00:13:32.950 --> 00:13:35.630

<v SPEAKER_7>So that coming out speech I rehearsed was a waste of time.

00:13:35.630 --> 00:13:36.390

<v SPEAKER_7>That's so cool.

00:13:36.390 --> 00:13:37.090

<v SPEAKER_7>I love that.

00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:39.310

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm sure your dad appreciated the talk you gave us.

00:13:40.190 --> 00:13:41.590

<v SPEAKER_7>Why did I bring dad into this?

00:13:41.590 --> 00:13:45.710

<v SPEAKER_7>I mean, but you didn't appreciate it?

00:13:45.710 --> 00:13:47.350

<v SPEAKER_15>I didn't say that.

00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:47.750

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay.

00:13:47.750 --> 00:13:51.830

<v SPEAKER_7>Well, I didn't appreciate you being so dismissive and homophobic.

00:13:51.830 --> 00:13:53.990

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation already.

00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:58.390

<v SPEAKER_15>You're just trying to get me on film saying it, so you can play it over and over again.

00:13:58.390 --> 00:14:00.370

<v SPEAKER_15>Is that what we're doing now?

00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:01.550

<v SPEAKER_15>Really, why are we doing this?

00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:02.470

<v SPEAKER_15>Why are you...

00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:05.030

<v SPEAKER_15>Look, Jazmine, I was just shocked.

00:14:05.030 --> 00:14:07.070

<v SPEAKER_15>My reaction was out of character.

00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:07.670

<v SPEAKER_15>You know that.

00:14:07.670 --> 00:14:11.970

<v SPEAKER_15>I was just as surprised by my own response to your coming out as you were.

00:14:11.970 --> 00:14:12.850

<v SPEAKER_7>That doesn't make sense.

00:14:12.850 --> 00:14:15.150

<v SPEAKER_17>Can you say more?

00:14:15.150 --> 00:14:17.570

<v SPEAKER_15>What else do you want me to say?

00:14:17.570 --> 00:14:18.610

<v SPEAKER_3>More.

00:14:18.610 --> 00:14:20.390

<v SPEAKER_15>Now you're doing the one word thing?

00:14:20.390 --> 00:14:24.310

<v SPEAKER_12>Jaz, your mother has since come around.

00:14:24.310 --> 00:14:25.810

<v SPEAKER_12>That's what matters most.

00:14:25.810 --> 00:14:27.090

<v SPEAKER_17>No, she hasn't.

00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:28.710

<v SPEAKER_7>Why are you on her side right now?

00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:30.290

<v SPEAKER_17>We're coddling a grown adult.

00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:35.230

<v SPEAKER_17>She just accused me of playing this over and over again.

00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:36.990

<v SPEAKER_17>I don't know what she's doing right now.

00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:40.350

<v SPEAKER_17>I mean, this is not someone that's chained.

00:14:42.770 --> 00:14:44.730

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't need to be here.

00:14:47.770 --> 00:14:50.190

<v SPEAKER_15>You can do your little film without me.

00:14:51.950 --> 00:14:53.650

<v SPEAKER_15>So treat me with respect.

00:14:54.790 --> 00:14:56.930

<v SPEAKER_15>I am trying to come around.

00:14:56.930 --> 00:14:57.370

<v SPEAKER_7>Trying?

00:14:57.370 --> 00:14:57.970

<v SPEAKER_7>You're trying.

00:14:58.550 --> 00:15:00.970

<v SPEAKER_17>Why is it so hard for you to simply accept it?

00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:04.250

<v SPEAKER_7>I mean, everyone around you can comprehend acceptance.

00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:05.230

<v SPEAKER_7>Why can't you?

00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:06.830

<v SPEAKER_17>Can you just get with the times?

00:15:06.830 --> 00:15:15.230

<v SPEAKER_15>Look, Jazmine, between your coming out and Mommy's, this is all just a lot of new information for me.

00:15:15.230 --> 00:15:17.710

<v SPEAKER_15>I need time to unpack it for myself.

00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:19.270

<v SPEAKER_7>How much time?

00:15:19.270 --> 00:15:22.730

<v SPEAKER_15>How much time did it take for you to accept your queerness?

00:15:23.970 --> 00:15:25.170

<v SPEAKER_15>How much time did that take?

00:15:27.410 --> 00:15:28.330

<v SPEAKER_7>Now you're so curious.

00:15:28.330 --> 00:15:29.770

<v SPEAKER_7>That's interesting.

00:15:29.770 --> 00:15:31.590

<v SPEAKER_17>You don't get to know.

00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:32.650

<v SPEAKER_15>Why?

00:15:32.650 --> 00:15:34.490

<v SPEAKER_15>You're asking me about time.

00:15:34.490 --> 00:15:38.450

<v SPEAKER_15>You're asking me about time in relation to identity.

00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:44.830

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm asking you, how much time did it take for you to accept your queerness?

00:15:44.830 --> 00:15:46.210

<v SPEAKER_15>Be honest.

00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:52.450

<v SPEAKER_7>Honestly, it took a lot longer than I would have liked, because truly the only thing slowing down my process was you.

00:15:52.890 --> 00:15:56.090

<v SPEAKER_15>You didn't answer the question, which tells me everything.

00:15:56.090 --> 00:15:58.670

<v SPEAKER_15>You want everything your way.

00:15:58.670 --> 00:16:00.850

<v SPEAKER_7>I want everything my way.

00:16:00.850 --> 00:16:08.830

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm asking you an honest question about how long is it going to take you for you to accept me, and now it's about me, and wanting things to always be on my terms.

00:16:08.830 --> 00:16:11.590

<v SPEAKER_17>That's a wild thing to say.

00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:14.550

<v SPEAKER_15>Look, I don't know how much time it will take me.

00:16:14.550 --> 00:16:16.350

<v SPEAKER_7>Sorry, you don't get to not know.

00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:17.070

<v SPEAKER_7>I need answers.

00:16:17.070 --> 00:16:18.650

<v SPEAKER_17>Why is it so hard for you?

00:16:18.650 --> 00:16:19.910

<v SPEAKER_15>It just is.

00:16:23.810 --> 00:16:31.090

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm, I'd always thought my mother had to have done something really awful for God to take her from me.

00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:40.710

<v SPEAKER_15>And when I was a kid, there were quite a few people who told me that God struck her because she had relationships with women.

00:16:40.710 --> 00:16:45.970

<v SPEAKER_15>So I associated my mother's death with her fluidity all my life.

00:16:46.850 --> 00:16:49.210

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, baby.

00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:52.150

<v SPEAKER_12>My baby, my sweet baby.

00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:54.910

<v SPEAKER_11>I'm so sorry.

00:16:55.950 --> 00:17:00.010

<v SPEAKER_11>I, I should have.

00:17:00.010 --> 00:17:02.050

<v SPEAKER_15>It's fine.

00:17:02.050 --> 00:17:02.850

<v SPEAKER_15>You didn't know.

00:17:02.850 --> 00:17:03.930

<v SPEAKER_15>And I mean, how could you?

00:17:03.930 --> 00:17:05.910

<v SPEAKER_15>You were busy trying to rid the world of racism.

00:17:05.910 --> 00:17:10.670

<v SPEAKER_15>So, Jaz, when you came out to us, I got scared, and I thought…

00:17:12.770 --> 00:17:14.570

<v SPEAKER_15>I thought God would…

00:17:14.570 --> 00:17:15.370

<v SPEAKER_17>Kill me?

00:17:15.370 --> 00:17:17.430

<v SPEAKER_15>I know it sounds crazy.

00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:19.430

<v SPEAKER_17>Do you still feel that way?

00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:24.690

<v SPEAKER_15>What I know and what I feel aren't always in agreement.

00:17:24.690 --> 00:17:27.230

<v SPEAKER_7>That's very obvious.

00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:28.530

<v SPEAKER_15>I can't wait.

00:17:28.530 --> 00:17:30.550

<v SPEAKER_15>I really hope I'm alive.

00:17:32.250 --> 00:17:49.390

<v SPEAKER_15>When you're forty or fifty years old, and we can have this conversation again, and your heart may be more understanding, and my heart may be more understanding, just know that I love you.

00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:55.790

<v SPEAKER_7>And just know that I need you to be the parent, and to do a better job at it.

00:18:04.267 --> 00:18:05.487

<v SPEAKER_13>What do you want, child?

00:18:21.667 --> 00:18:26.807

<v SPEAKER_9>I can't write this speech with all your singing and this baby crying.

00:18:26.807 --> 00:18:28.447

<v SPEAKER_13>Can you take her?

00:18:29.867 --> 00:18:32.207

<v SPEAKER_9>Why are you crying, momma?

00:18:32.207 --> 00:18:33.307

<v SPEAKER_9>Did you give her a bottle?

00:18:33.307 --> 00:18:37.907

<v SPEAKER_13>I fed her, I changed her, sang her, a fucking song and everything.

00:18:37.947 --> 00:18:39.927

<v SPEAKER_8>Oh, shoot.

00:18:39.947 --> 00:18:41.667

<v SPEAKER_11>It's okay.

00:18:41.667 --> 00:18:43.307

<v SPEAKER_9>It's okay.

00:18:43.307 --> 00:18:46.947

<v SPEAKER_13>I don't think Vincent plans on taking her back anytime soon.

00:18:46.947 --> 00:18:48.947

<v SPEAKER_9>He just needs some time to himself.

00:18:48.947 --> 00:18:50.947

<v SPEAKER_13>It's been months, Ella.

00:18:50.947 --> 00:18:52.647

<v SPEAKER_13>I can't raise no kid.

00:18:52.647 --> 00:18:55.007

<v SPEAKER_13>I gotta go back to LA to shoot this movie.

00:18:55.007 --> 00:18:56.487

<v SPEAKER_13>Then I got the tour.

00:18:56.487 --> 00:19:00.507

<v SPEAKER_9>My dear, what do you always say about living in the moment?

00:19:00.507 --> 00:19:03.027

<v SPEAKER_13>This moment got a child.

00:19:03.027 --> 00:19:05.987

<v SPEAKER_13>There's not much living we can do with a baby.

00:19:05.987 --> 00:19:08.307

<v SPEAKER_9>It's just a different type of living.

00:19:08.307 --> 00:19:09.887

<v SPEAKER_9>It's only temporary.

00:19:09.887 --> 00:19:11.327

<v SPEAKER_13>What if Vincent doesn't come back?

00:19:17.632 --> 00:19:18.512

<v SPEAKER_9>Mm-hmm, hello?

00:19:18.512 --> 00:19:19.652

<v SPEAKER_4>Ella.

00:19:19.652 --> 00:19:21.752

<v SPEAKER_9>Kathy, what's wrong?

00:19:21.752 --> 00:19:24.412

<v SPEAKER_2>I need, I need help.

00:19:24.412 --> 00:19:28.472

<v SPEAKER_9>Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, I'm on, I'm on my way.

00:19:30.072 --> 00:19:31.572

<v SPEAKER_9>I have to go over to Kathy's.

00:19:31.572 --> 00:19:33.152

<v SPEAKER_13>She always needs something.

00:19:33.152 --> 00:19:35.792

<v SPEAKER_9>She's pregnant, and you know Jo isn't much help.

00:19:35.792 --> 00:19:36.692

<v SPEAKER_9>I'll be back.

00:19:36.692 --> 00:19:38.472

<v SPEAKER_13>You can't just leave me here with her.

00:19:38.472 --> 00:19:39.912

<v SPEAKER_13>She'll stop crying if you leave.

00:19:39.912 --> 00:19:42.792

<v SPEAKER_9>My parents will be back home to help any minute, okay?

00:19:42.792 --> 00:19:43.412

<v SPEAKER_3>Love you both.

00:20:03.213 --> 00:20:04.513

<v SPEAKER_8>Kathy.

00:20:04.513 --> 00:20:04.933

<v SPEAKER_3>Kathy!

00:20:06.293 --> 00:20:07.533

<v SPEAKER_9>What happened?

00:20:10.253 --> 00:20:11.873

<v SPEAKER_5>It's Jose.

00:20:11.873 --> 00:20:12.613

<v SPEAKER_8>Is he breathing?

00:20:27.873 --> 00:20:29.373

<v SPEAKER_5>Hi, Ella.

00:20:29.373 --> 00:20:31.653

<v SPEAKER_19>My name is Barbra Graves.

00:20:31.653 --> 00:20:34.693

<v SPEAKER_19>I'm the latest addition to your legal team.

00:20:34.693 --> 00:20:37.753

<v SPEAKER_19>Is it okay if I start off with prayer?

00:20:37.753 --> 00:20:40.633

<v SPEAKER_19>It's what I like to do before we begin each meeting.

00:20:42.153 --> 00:20:50.493

<v SPEAKER_19>Father God, we come before you seeking your mercy for all the ways we have fallen short.

00:20:53.173 --> 00:21:01.373

<v SPEAKER_19>I pray that you give Ella wisdom, and please, Lord, grant her protection from those who would seek to harm her.

00:21:03.593 --> 00:21:09.433

<v SPEAKER_19>May you guide both of our steps, and let thy will be done.

00:21:10.693 --> 00:21:14.733

<v SPEAKER_19>In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

00:21:16.353 --> 00:21:21.233

<v SPEAKER_19>So before I get into my questions for you, do you have any for me?

00:21:21.233 --> 00:21:22.473

<v SPEAKER_9>How is Kathy doing?

00:21:23.333 --> 00:21:27.033

<v SPEAKER_19>Kathy is not my client, so I'm not sure.

00:21:27.033 --> 00:21:27.913

<v SPEAKER_19>How are you, Ella?

00:21:36.727 --> 00:21:42.507

<v SPEAKER_19>We don't have much time here, so I want to be crystal clear on the facts.

00:21:42.507 --> 00:21:46.127

<v SPEAKER_19>There can't be any holes in your alibi, understand?

00:21:46.127 --> 00:21:47.127

<v SPEAKER_9>Understood.

00:21:47.127 --> 00:21:50.067

<v SPEAKER_19>So tell me where you were at the time of the crime.

00:21:50.067 --> 00:21:54.487

<v SPEAKER_9>I was with a friend of mine.

00:21:54.487 --> 00:21:56.127

<v SPEAKER_19>Which friend?

00:21:56.127 --> 00:21:56.967

<v SPEAKER_9>Lorraine.

00:21:56.967 --> 00:21:59.707

<v SPEAKER_19>Giovanni?

00:21:59.707 --> 00:22:03.087

<v SPEAKER_19>Did you attend her concert?

00:22:03.087 --> 00:22:03.827

<v SPEAKER_9>No.

00:22:03.827 --> 00:22:05.327

<v SPEAKER_19>Were you two in the company of other people?

00:22:05.887 --> 00:22:07.427

<v SPEAKER_8>No.

00:22:07.427 --> 00:22:10.527

<v SPEAKER_19>So, the rumors are true.

00:22:10.527 --> 00:22:12.867

<v SPEAKER_9>Well, what rumors?

00:22:12.867 --> 00:22:14.487

<v SPEAKER_19>There are rumors.

00:22:14.487 --> 00:22:17.347

<v SPEAKER_19>About the two of you shacking up.

00:22:17.347 --> 00:22:19.347

<v SPEAKER_19>Is there any truth to that?

00:22:19.347 --> 00:22:21.447

<v SPEAKER_9>Does it matter either way?

00:22:21.447 --> 00:22:24.407

<v SPEAKER_19>It's not the greatest narrative for an alibi.

00:22:24.407 --> 00:22:27.127

<v SPEAKER_19>But it's better than the one that paints you as a murderer.

00:22:27.167 --> 00:22:29.207

<v SPEAKER_19>So, yeah.

00:22:29.207 --> 00:22:30.967

<v SPEAKER_19>Right.

00:22:30.967 --> 00:22:32.707

<v SPEAKER_9>What about Lorraine?

00:22:32.707 --> 00:22:38.867

<v SPEAKER_9>What would happen to her life if this hearsay became public?

00:22:38.867 --> 00:22:41.907

<v SPEAKER_19>I think you have an idea of exactly what could happen.

00:22:41.907 --> 00:22:44.547

<v SPEAKER_19>Listen, we have limited time, Ella.

00:22:44.547 --> 00:22:50.127

<v SPEAKER_19>So, I don't think I should spend it validating your concerns for people not in this room.

00:22:50.127 --> 00:22:51.127

<v SPEAKER_19>Okay.

00:22:51.127 --> 00:22:55.147

<v SPEAKER_9>Barbra, are you an honest attorney?

00:22:55.147 --> 00:22:56.147

<v SPEAKER_9>Or the dishonest type?

00:22:56.787 --> 00:23:00.887

<v SPEAKER_19>I'm honest with my clients.

00:23:00.887 --> 00:23:04.447

<v SPEAKER_9>Do you think you can plead my case without throwing Kathy under the bus?

00:23:04.447 --> 00:23:07.747

<v SPEAKER_19>May I ask why you're so worried about Kathy?

00:23:07.747 --> 00:23:09.747

<v SPEAKER_9>I feel responsible.

00:23:09.747 --> 00:23:12.787

<v SPEAKER_19>Why, is there something you're not telling me?

00:23:12.787 --> 00:23:16.827

<v SPEAKER_19>Because I thought Joe had already passed away before you arrived.

00:23:16.967 --> 00:23:18.367

<v SPEAKER_9>No, no.

00:23:18.367 --> 00:23:23.947

<v SPEAKER_9>Right, he was gone by the time I arrived, but I'm the one who told her to defend herself.

00:23:25.287 --> 00:23:28.847

<v SPEAKER_9>I should have just focused on getting her out of that relationship.

00:23:28.847 --> 00:23:32.327

<v SPEAKER_19>Ella, you need to know that you didn't do anything wrong.

00:23:32.327 --> 00:23:35.527

<v SPEAKER_19>Kathy survived a dispute that could have killed her.

00:23:35.527 --> 00:23:43.207

<v SPEAKER_19>You did your best to protect your friend, but you won't be able to protect her or anyone else you care about from behind these prison walls.

00:23:43.207 --> 00:23:46.287

<v SPEAKER_9>But do you really think I have a chance of getting out of here?

00:23:46.287 --> 00:23:49.527

<v SPEAKER_19>I don't think a judge gets to determine your future.

00:23:49.527 --> 00:23:52.747

<v SPEAKER_9>So, you're confident in the jury that's been selected?

00:23:52.987 --> 00:23:59.147

<v SPEAKER_19>There's no way to know how the jury will decide, but they don't get to determine your future either.

00:24:00.047 --> 00:24:06.347

<v SPEAKER_9>I'm sorry, is there some other legal body I'm not familiar with that has a say in my case?

00:24:06.347 --> 00:24:09.347

<v SPEAKER_19>The court doesn't have the final say over your life, Ella.

00:24:09.347 --> 00:24:14.167

<v SPEAKER_19>If you want to be a sacrificial scapegoat for a crime you didn't commit, you can be just that.

00:24:14.167 --> 00:24:17.567

<v SPEAKER_19>But if you want to get out of here, we will get you out.

00:24:17.567 --> 00:24:18.927

<v SPEAKER_11>What do you mean?

00:24:18.927 --> 00:24:20.767

<v SPEAKER_19>The Lord works in mysterious ways.

00:24:21.787 --> 00:24:23.527

<v SPEAKER_19>His wonder is to perform.

00:24:27.087 --> 00:24:33.887

<v SPEAKER_7>Can you talk more about the trial and how you found yourself stuck in between Kathy's mess?

00:24:33.887 --> 00:24:38.107

<v SPEAKER_12>Look, I don't really care to talk about that time in my life.

00:24:38.107 --> 00:24:42.487

<v SPEAKER_12>But for you, Jazmine, I'll go there.

00:24:42.487 --> 00:24:47.307

<v SPEAKER_12>I thought about taking a fall for Kathy, but I didn't have much choice in the end.

00:24:47.687 --> 00:24:53.487

<v SPEAKER_12>And the cops contrived that narrative before I could make a decision for myself.

00:24:53.487 --> 00:24:59.827

<v SPEAKER_12>Before I knew it, every news station was reporting that I killed Joe.

00:24:59.827 --> 00:25:12.007

<v SPEAKER_12>Rumors about him being an informant, spying on the BLC started to circulate, and people both white and black started to believe that I killed him.

00:25:18.027 --> 00:25:20.127

<v SPEAKER_9>Thank you for offering to pay my bail.

00:25:20.127 --> 00:25:22.167

<v SPEAKER_13>You don't need to thank me.

00:25:22.167 --> 00:25:23.967

<v SPEAKER_13>It's not like they approved it.

00:25:23.967 --> 00:25:27.367

<v SPEAKER_9>Still, I appreciate it.

00:25:27.387 --> 00:25:29.047

<v SPEAKER_9>I appreciate you.

00:25:30.147 --> 00:25:38.707

<v SPEAKER_9>Everything you've been doing, working with Leroy and the BLC to get me out of here, I know how irritating those guys can be.

00:25:39.627 --> 00:25:42.287

<v SPEAKER_13>Your lawyer tells me you're thinking about pleading guilty.

00:25:42.287 --> 00:25:47.167

<v SPEAKER_9>My lawyer isn't supposed to be speaking to you or anyone for that matter about my case.

00:25:47.167 --> 00:25:51.387

<v SPEAKER_13>When you start talking crazy, folks feel like they need to intervene.

00:25:51.387 --> 00:25:56.487

<v SPEAKER_9>If I plead guilty now, I could get a deal.

00:25:56.487 --> 00:25:57.867

<v SPEAKER_9>Do less time.

00:25:57.867 --> 00:26:00.427

<v SPEAKER_13>You shouldn't have to do any time, Ella.

00:26:00.427 --> 00:26:02.047

<v SPEAKER_13>You didn't kill that man.

00:26:02.047 --> 00:26:04.647

<v SPEAKER_9>If I don't do time, they'll go after Kathy.

00:26:04.647 --> 00:26:06.927

<v SPEAKER_13>She's the one who killed her husband.

00:26:06.927 --> 00:26:08.147

<v SPEAKER_9>She was defending herself.

00:26:08.567 --> 00:26:10.027

<v SPEAKER_13>And she can tell the police that.

00:26:10.027 --> 00:26:11.447

<v SPEAKER_9>And how's that going to help?

00:26:11.447 --> 00:26:13.127

<v SPEAKER_8>Kathy wouldn't lose her mind in here.

00:26:13.127 --> 00:26:14.827

<v SPEAKER_13>And so will you.

00:26:14.827 --> 00:26:17.087

<v SPEAKER_9>She has a baby on the way, Lorraine.

00:26:17.087 --> 00:26:18.687

<v SPEAKER_13>And what about Suzanne?

00:26:18.687 --> 00:26:20.487

<v SPEAKER_13>First her mother dies.

00:26:20.487 --> 00:26:23.447

<v SPEAKER_13>No one knows where her father's run off to.

00:26:23.447 --> 00:26:25.227

<v SPEAKER_13>And now you're in jail.

00:26:26.787 --> 00:26:28.707

<v SPEAKER_9>You'll take good care of her.

00:26:29.787 --> 00:26:30.747

<v SPEAKER_9>Can you promise me that?

00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:40.320

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't think I need to hear any more of these stories.

00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:48.520

<v SPEAKER_15>Jaz, I understand why you want to know certain things, but this really doesn't do anything for me.

00:26:48.520 --> 00:26:51.520

<v SPEAKER_7>Okay, can you just, like, hold on for one second?

00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:56.100

<v SPEAKER_15>No, look, I don't have anything else to say.

00:26:56.120 --> 00:26:57.420

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, baby.

00:26:58.780 --> 00:27:01.320

<v SPEAKER_11>Dear, I'm so sorry.

00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:02.340

<v SPEAKER_11>I should have...

00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:03.440

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm fine.

00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:04.980

<v SPEAKER_15>It's fine.

00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:06.340

<v SPEAKER_15>You don't have to apologize.

00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:07.100

<v SPEAKER_15>You all carry on.

00:27:17.436 --> 00:27:18.156

<v SPEAKER_12>Suzanne.

00:27:18.156 --> 00:27:19.496

<v SPEAKER_15>Mommy, I'm fine.

00:27:19.496 --> 00:27:21.056

<v SPEAKER_15>I just need a moment.

00:27:21.056 --> 00:27:21.936

<v SPEAKER_12>Sweetie.

00:27:21.936 --> 00:27:24.716

<v SPEAKER_15>Can you just let me be?

00:27:24.716 --> 00:27:28.436

<v SPEAKER_15>It's really what you do best, so can you just do that, please?

00:27:28.436 --> 00:27:30.276

<v SPEAKER_12>No.

00:27:30.276 --> 00:27:32.336

<v SPEAKER_12>No, I can't.

00:27:32.336 --> 00:27:33.196

<v SPEAKER_12>Not this time.

00:27:38.732 --> 00:27:45.292

<v SPEAKER_15>Mommy, am I, am I a bad, am I, am I a bad?

00:27:48.772 --> 00:27:52.072

<v SPEAKER_15>I must be, I fucked up, I fucked her up.

00:27:52.072 --> 00:27:53.492

<v SPEAKER_12>No, you didn't.

00:27:53.492 --> 00:27:56.032

<v SPEAKER_12>I fucked up.

00:27:56.032 --> 00:28:00.652

<v SPEAKER_12>Look, I should have been more present.

00:28:02.112 --> 00:28:06.832

<v SPEAKER_12>I wasn't a very good mother.

00:28:08.092 --> 00:28:09.912

<v SPEAKER_15>Stop, that's not true.

00:28:09.912 --> 00:28:11.092

<v SPEAKER_11>It is.

00:28:14.452 --> 00:28:16.332

<v SPEAKER_15>It's not true, Mommy.

00:28:18.592 --> 00:28:25.012

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't know, I just, I don't, I don't know where I went wrong with Jazmine.

00:28:25.012 --> 00:28:30.932

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't know if it's something that I did.

00:28:30.932 --> 00:28:34.812

<v SPEAKER_12>This is nothing compared to the way you and I used to go at it.

00:28:35.392 --> 00:28:38.172

<v SPEAKER_15>I just thought I would be better than you at this.

00:28:38.172 --> 00:28:38.992

<v SPEAKER_12>And you are.

00:28:44.767 --> 00:28:47.727

<v SPEAKER_15>You did so many things right, you know?

00:28:49.387 --> 00:28:53.467

<v SPEAKER_15>And you never would have hurt me the way I just hurt Jess.

00:28:53.467 --> 00:28:55.627

<v SPEAKER_12>Well, she knows you love her.

00:28:55.627 --> 00:28:56.787

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't know about that.

00:28:56.787 --> 00:28:59.967

<v SPEAKER_15>I don't think she's convinced, Mommy.

00:28:59.967 --> 00:29:02.187

<v SPEAKER_15>And I don't know how to convince her.

00:29:02.187 --> 00:29:03.707

<v SPEAKER_12>Yes, you do.

00:29:03.707 --> 00:29:05.947

<v SPEAKER_12>It doesn't have to be this way.

00:29:05.947 --> 00:29:09.847

<v SPEAKER_12>You have everything you need to make this right.

00:29:09.887 --> 00:29:15.707

<v SPEAKER_15>Okay, well, you know, I'm just going to go run to the bank.

00:29:16.167 --> 00:29:16.767

<v SPEAKER_15>I have to hurry.

00:29:16.767 --> 00:29:18.767

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm going to go run to the bank.

00:29:18.767 --> 00:29:21.167

<v SPEAKER_7>Mommy, I need your lov.

00:29:21.167 --> 00:29:21.827

<v SPEAKER_15>What?

00:29:21.827 --> 00:29:22.567

<v SPEAKER_15>My what?

00:29:22.567 --> 00:29:23.747

<v SPEAKER_7>The mic.

00:29:23.747 --> 00:29:25.907

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh.

00:29:25.907 --> 00:29:26.867

<v SPEAKER_15>Fuck.

00:29:26.907 --> 00:29:27.907

<v SPEAKER_11>It's stuck.

00:29:28.147 --> 00:29:29.947

<v SPEAKER_15>I can't get it off.

00:29:29.947 --> 00:29:31.707

<v SPEAKER_17>Let me help you.

00:29:31.847 --> 00:29:36.527

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm going to stop by that ice cream place you like after the bank.

00:29:36.527 --> 00:29:37.667

<v SPEAKER_15>You want to come?

00:29:37.667 --> 00:29:38.747

<v SPEAKER_7>Aren't they closed on Thursdays?

00:29:39.327 --> 00:29:40.287

<v SPEAKER_15>Oh, right.

00:29:40.287 --> 00:29:40.667

<v SPEAKER_15>Yeah.

00:29:40.667 --> 00:29:43.447

<v SPEAKER_15>Well, we could go get those cookies you like from...

00:29:43.447 --> 00:29:47.787

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, from the bakery that you never have time to drive to.

00:29:47.787 --> 00:29:48.707

<v SPEAKER_7>Are you...

00:29:48.707 --> 00:29:53.187

<v SPEAKER_7>are you bribing me and into forgiving you?

00:29:53.187 --> 00:29:56.927

<v SPEAKER_15>I'm just trying to find a way to talk to you.

00:29:56.927 --> 00:29:57.437

<v SPEAKER_15>Look, I...

00:29:57.437 --> 00:29:58.827

<v SPEAKER_15>you know, I need to go.

00:29:58.827 --> 00:29:59.447

<v SPEAKER_15>So, you know what?

00:29:59.447 --> 00:30:01.347

<v SPEAKER_15>Just text me if you want anything.

00:30:01.347 --> 00:30:02.047

<v SPEAKER_14>Okay.

00:30:02.047 --> 00:30:03.627

<v SPEAKER_1>Mom.

00:30:03.627 --> 00:30:05.247

<v SPEAKER_14>Wait.

00:30:05.247 --> 00:30:06.327

<v SPEAKER_7>Let me put this equipment away.

00:30:13.746 --> 00:30:40.906

<v SPEAKER_7>So at the beginning of Grint, Ella Ali's trial, you were very vocal and supportive of her, and you called for her release at one of your concerts, and in an interview with William Davis for BDNYC News, you said, quote, Everyone should be outraged by what's happening to our sister, Ella Ali, and everyone should be doing their part to get her free.

00:30:41.586 --> 00:30:43.086

<v SPEAKER_7>The public hype around Dr.

00:30:43.086 --> 00:30:50.386

<v SPEAKER_7>Ali's case was short-lived, and after a while, it seemed like you stopped showing up for her, too.

00:30:50.386 --> 00:30:52.166

<v SPEAKER_7>Is that what happened?

00:30:52.166 --> 00:30:55.106

<v SPEAKER_8>I did as much as I could to help Ella.

00:30:55.106 --> 00:31:03.426

<v SPEAKER_8>I know she thinks I abandoned her, but after she told me she wanted to protect Kathy, I thought she had given up.

00:31:03.746 --> 00:31:10.686

<v SPEAKER_8>I couldn't risk losing everything I had if she wasn't gonna fight for herself.

00:31:15.166 --> 00:31:21.786

<v SPEAKER_14>Lorraine, there is too much money on the line for you to drag your name down with this bitch.

00:31:21.786 --> 00:31:26.686

<v SPEAKER_13>I've told you about calling Ella a bitch, and you need to stop being so goddamn dramatic.

00:31:28.086 --> 00:31:29.746

<v SPEAKER_14>They have your letters.

00:31:30.926 --> 00:31:32.086

<v SPEAKER_13>What letters?

00:31:33.706 --> 00:31:36.806

<v SPEAKER_13>Sean, what letters?

00:31:36.806 --> 00:31:39.026

<v SPEAKER_14>The ones that you sent Ella.

00:31:43.326 --> 00:31:49.226

<v SPEAKER_14>You know how much money I had to pay that cat to keep them from printing that shit in the paper?

00:31:52.546 --> 00:31:54.826

<v SPEAKER_14>Did you mean what you said in those letters?

00:31:57.086 --> 00:31:58.546

<v SPEAKER_14>That you love her?

00:32:02.586 --> 00:32:07.726

<v SPEAKER_14>MGM don't like that you've been doing all these interviews trying to help that bit.

00:32:07.726 --> 00:32:10.106

<v SPEAKER_14>Ella, get free.

00:32:11.306 --> 00:32:13.266

<v SPEAKER_14>They're talking about end of your contract.

00:32:16.466 --> 00:32:22.746

<v SPEAKER_14>Now look, if you want to fuck up your career, then you go right on ahead.

00:32:22.746 --> 00:32:25.526

<v SPEAKER_14>I mean, shit, you've done enough damage as it is.

00:32:27.446 --> 00:32:29.226

<v SPEAKER_13>How can I repair it?

00:32:30.466 --> 00:32:31.046

<v SPEAKER_13>The damage.

00:32:44.358 --> 00:32:59.718

<v SPEAKER_16>Sean, do you take Lorraine to be your wife, to live together in holy matrimony, to love her, to honor her, to comfort her, and to keep her in sickness and in health, forsaking all others for as long as you both shall live?

00:32:59.718 --> 00:33:00.918

<v SPEAKER_6>I do.

00:33:00.918 --> 00:33:18.678

<v SPEAKER_16>And Lorraine, do you take this man to be your husband, to live together in holy matrimony, to love him, to honor him, to comfort him, and to keep him in sickness and in health, forsaking all others for as long as you both shall live?

00:33:20.818 --> 00:33:23.278

<v SPEAKER_13>I do.

00:33:40.590 --> 00:33:43.370

<v SPEAKER_7>Can you tell me about your wedding day?

00:33:43.370 --> 00:33:44.830

<v SPEAKER_7>The one to Sean?

00:33:44.830 --> 00:33:50.150

<v SPEAKER_8>Everyone who was anyone was at the wedding, except Ella, of course.

00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:52.350

<v SPEAKER_8>I don't remember much of it.

00:33:52.350 --> 00:33:58.370

<v SPEAKER_8>The photos suggest I had a good time, but not good enough to recall a thing.

00:33:58.370 --> 00:34:03.510

<v SPEAKER_8>We didn't have time for a honeymoon, so we renamed the tour, the honeymoon tour.

00:34:03.510 --> 00:34:06.770

<v SPEAKER_8>And right after the ceremony, we hit the road.

00:34:07.790 --> 00:34:11.290

<v SPEAKER_7>What made the judge decide to grant you freedom?

00:34:11.290 --> 00:34:15.590

<v SPEAKER_12>Right before my trial started, the judge passed away.

00:34:15.590 --> 00:34:22.570

<v SPEAKER_12>Then one of the attorneys on the prosecution team got into a car accident that disabled him.

00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:28.430

<v SPEAKER_12>Then, during court, one of the jurors had a heart attack.

00:34:28.430 --> 00:34:34.090

<v SPEAKER_12>She survived, but after that, folks started saying my case was cursed.

00:34:34.090 --> 00:34:36.490

<v SPEAKER_12>So no one wanted to touch it.

00:34:37.550 --> 00:34:39.910

<v SPEAKER_12>Eventually, it was dismissed.

00:34:39.910 --> 00:34:41.110

<v SPEAKER_12>I was lucky.

00:34:41.110 --> 00:34:48.270

<v SPEAKER_12>There are some political prisoners still doing time today for crimes that the state fabricated.

00:34:48.270 --> 00:34:52.050

<v SPEAKER_7>What did you do when you learned your case was dropped and you were getting released?

00:34:52.050 --> 00:34:55.490

<v SPEAKER_12>I couldn't believe it when they told me I was getting out.

00:34:55.490 --> 00:34:59.570

<v SPEAKER_12>And Lorraine was the first person I wanted to see.

00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:03.210

<v SPEAKER_12>And as soon as I was freed, I saw her.

00:35:04.390 --> 00:35:18.090

<v SPEAKER_12>On the cover of the New York Times, in a wedding dress under the headline, Lorraine Giovanni marries former musician and manager, Sean White.

00:35:19.210 --> 00:35:23.090

<v SPEAKER_12>Reading that article crushed my spirit.

00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:27.330

<v SPEAKER_12>But I still had to see Lorraine.

00:35:27.330 --> 00:35:29.610

<v SPEAKER_8>Ella does not like to fly.

00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:30.630

<v SPEAKER_8>Not even private.

00:35:30.990 --> 00:35:34.150

<v SPEAKER_12>But I got on a plane to California anyhow.

00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:38.710

<v SPEAKER_8>I was doing a sound check for the tour when Ella showed up to the venue.

00:35:38.710 --> 00:35:42.190

<v SPEAKER_8>Word that she had been released from prison hadn't gotten to me yet.

00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:47.990

<v SPEAKER_8>So I was nothing but shocked to see her.

00:35:47.990 --> 00:35:49.610

<v SPEAKER_8>I couldn't even talk.

00:36:01.581 --> 00:36:04.841

<v SPEAKER_11>Lorraine?

00:36:04.841 --> 00:36:09.001

<v SPEAKER_9>You all of a sudden don't know how to speak?

00:36:10.081 --> 00:36:14.781

<v SPEAKER_9>They dismissed my case, dropped all the charges.

00:36:14.781 --> 00:36:17.301

<v SPEAKER_13>All the charges?

00:36:17.301 --> 00:36:19.221

<v SPEAKER_13>You're free?

00:36:19.221 --> 00:36:21.381

<v SPEAKER_13>Oh, praise God!

00:36:21.381 --> 00:36:22.961

<v SPEAKER_13>I gotta go to church now.

00:36:22.961 --> 00:36:27.061

<v SPEAKER_13>I told the Lord I'd go back to church if they let you out.

00:36:27.061 --> 00:36:28.941

<v SPEAKER_13>I might have to record a gospel record too.

00:36:29.841 --> 00:36:31.101

<v SPEAKER_9>You got married?

00:36:32.121 --> 00:36:34.021

<v SPEAKER_13>Nothing has to change.

00:36:34.021 --> 00:36:36.081

<v SPEAKER_9>So much has already changed.

00:36:37.681 --> 00:36:42.581

<v SPEAKER_9>As soon as I get out of prison, you go and build one for yourself.

00:36:42.581 --> 00:36:45.121

<v SPEAKER_13>We'll figure something out.

00:36:45.121 --> 00:36:47.661

<v SPEAKER_13>We always do.

00:36:47.661 --> 00:36:47.901

<v SPEAKER_14>Ms.

00:36:47.901 --> 00:36:50.161

<v SPEAKER_14>Giovanni, they're ready for you.

00:36:52.261 --> 00:36:57.961

<v SPEAKER_7>Lorraine's wedding and my grandmother's release from prison should have been the most joyful times of their lives.

00:36:58.461 --> 00:37:01.861

<v SPEAKER_7>But they both tell me it was the most despairing.

00:37:01.861 --> 00:37:07.161

<v SPEAKER_7>When I went back to Lorraine's discography, I was struck by her first single following her wedding.

00:37:07.221 --> 00:37:11.781

<v SPEAKER_7>I find myself listening, thinking about what would happen to Lorraine and my grandma.

00:37:11.781 --> 00:37:13.821

<v SPEAKER_7>Who would she become?

00:37:13.821 --> 00:37:16.561

<v SPEAKER_7>And who baby Suzanne would have grown into?

00:41:27.471 --> 00:41:30.291

<v SPEAKER_5>Thank you for listening to Red for Revolution.

00:41:30.291 --> 00:41:32.751

<v SPEAKER_5>No justice, no peace.

00:41:32.751 --> 00:41:38.991

<v SPEAKER_5>We hope this episode reminds you that you are worthy of love, safety and justice.

00:41:38.991 --> 00:41:46.671

<v SPEAKER_5>Red for Revolution was created, written and directed by Jana Naomi Smith, with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:41:46.671 --> 00:41:50.631

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:41:50.631 --> 00:41:59.811

<v SPEAKER_5>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith and Meta Mana Media and produced by Liz McBee.

00:41:59.811 --> 00:42:05.871

<v SPEAKER_5>This episode featured performances by Jordan Hull as Jazmine James, S.

00:42:05.871 --> 00:42:37.651

<v SPEAKER_5>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, Present Day, Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, Present Day, Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali, in the 1970s, Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni, in the 1970s, Anjanu Ellis-Taylor as Delores Ali, Danny Glover as Howard Ali, Jennifer Beals as Suzanne Sands, Vanessa E.

00:42:37.651 --> 00:43:02.491

<v SPEAKER_5>Williams as Barbara Graves, Don Daniels as Sean, JoNell Kennedy as News Reporter, Mark Thompson as William Davis, Caro Guzmán as Cathy, Miles Agee as Vincent and Preacher, Xavier Miles Temple as Nightclub Runner.

00:43:02.491 --> 00:43:07.091

<v SPEAKER_5>And this is Adrienne Marie Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:43:07.091 --> 00:43:12.231

<v SPEAKER_5>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrian Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:43:12.231 --> 00:43:13.091

<v SPEAKER_5>Williams.

00:43:13.091 --> 00:43:32.291

<v SPEAKER_18>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the managing producer, Audrey Mardavich is the executive producer, Red for Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited run, artist owned series from new and original voices.

00:43:32.291 --> 00:43:37.431

<v SPEAKER_18>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:37.431 --> 00:43:40.331

<v SPEAKER_5>Our Red for Revolution Band includes Tammy L.

00:43:40.331 --> 00:43:54.111

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:43:54.111 --> 00:43:57.971

<v SPEAKER_5>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:43:57.971 --> 00:44:01.091

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:44:01.091 --> 00:44:13.991

<v SPEAKER_5>The music featured in this episode includes Send In The Clowns, written by Stephen Sondheim, performed by Renée Wilson and Jordan Hull, courtesy of Warner Chappell Music Inc.

00:44:15.791 --> 00:44:21.691

<v SPEAKER_5>The team behind Red for Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:44:21.691 --> 00:44:28.011

<v SPEAKER_5>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforrevolution.com.

00:44:29.491 --> 00:44:32.931

<v SPEAKER_5>This has been your sonic goddess, Adrienne Marie Brown.

00:44:32.931 --> 00:44:33.731

<v SPEAKER_5>Thank you for listening.

00:44:44.637 --> 00:44:46.717

<v SPEAKER_14>Radiotopia from PRX.

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:05.780

<v SPEAKER_1>You're listening to Radiotopia Presents from PRX's Radiotopia.

00:00:07.180 --> 00:00:12.460

<v SPEAKER_2>Can people really change for the better in life, in love, and in relationships?

00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:18.680

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm Meredith Goldstein, longtime advice columnist at the Boston Globe and host of its podcast, Love Letters.

00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:23.500

<v SPEAKER_2>In season 10 of Love Letters, we're asking one big question, can people change?

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.480

<v SPEAKER_2>And if so, how?

00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:33.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Get ready to laugh, cry, and learn as guests tell real stories about resilience, transformation, and being better at being together.

00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:37.920

<v SPEAKER_2>Listen or watch the new season of Love Letters wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.420

<v SPEAKER_3>This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Subject to credit approval, Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:06.820

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00:01:08.460 --> 00:01:12.140

<v SPEAKER_4>Radiotopia Presents is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game?

00:01:14.780 --> 00:01:21.380

<v SPEAKER_4>Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.

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<v SPEAKER_5>On Angelina Grimke, I often think of her dying alone in an apartment in New York City while I was a young black lesbian in isolation not too far away.

00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:51.460

<v SPEAKER_5>And I think of what it could have meant in terms of sisterhood and survival for each of us to have known of the other's existence.

00:01:51.460 --> 00:01:59.720

<v SPEAKER_5>For me to have had her words and for her to have known I needed them, that we are not alone.

00:01:59.720 --> 00:02:01.100

<v SPEAKER_5>Audrey Lord.

00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:03.620

<v SPEAKER_5>This is Adrienne Marie Brown.

00:02:03.620 --> 00:02:09.640

<v SPEAKER_5>You're listening to the Season 1 finale of Red For Revolution, the audio drama.

00:02:09.640 --> 00:02:15.800

<v SPEAKER_5>I invite you to travel across time for a multi-generational story of love and liberation.

00:02:16.320 --> 00:02:20.500

<v SPEAKER_5>For accessibility, transcripts are available at redforevolution.com.

00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:30.460

<v SPEAKER_5>This episode contains adult content and features references to substance abuse and suicidal ideation.

00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:32.960

<v SPEAKER_5>Listener discretion advised.

00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:41.480

<v SPEAKER_5>Last episode, tensions between Jazmine and her mother reached a boiling point, unearthing some painful family history.

00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:47.640

<v SPEAKER_5>With the help of grandma Ella, the three women worked to confront intergenerational homophobia.

00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:57.940

<v SPEAKER_5>Meanwhile, back in 1971, Ella was arrested for a crime she did not commit, and Lorraine was forced to make a difficult decision.

00:02:57.940 --> 00:03:01.020

<v SPEAKER_5>Without further ado, let's continue our story.

00:03:10.836 --> 00:03:14.976

<v SPEAKER_6>So, I came out to my mother about a month ago.

00:03:14.976 --> 00:03:16.096

<v SPEAKER_6>It was a disaster.

00:03:16.096 --> 00:03:23.816

<v SPEAKER_6>I regret ever saying anything, and I think I might even resent my grandmother a little for encouraging me to tell my parents.

00:03:23.816 --> 00:03:29.176

<v SPEAKER_6>Ever since I started living my truth, my mom has been avoiding me.

00:03:29.176 --> 00:03:37.936

<v SPEAKER_6>After my conversation with mommy, I can't help but think of how she ended up so, so traumatized.

00:03:37.936 --> 00:03:45.196

<v SPEAKER_6>I have my own trauma to work through, so I'd rather not spend so much time concerning myself with hers, but alas, here we are.

00:03:54.257 --> 00:03:56.617

<v SPEAKER_6>Mommy, do you have a minute?

00:03:56.617 --> 00:03:57.437

<v SPEAKER_7>Uh, sure.

00:03:57.437 --> 00:03:58.277

<v SPEAKER_7>What's up?

00:03:58.277 --> 00:04:00.297

<v SPEAKER_6>Can you do me a favor?

00:04:00.297 --> 00:04:02.057

<v SPEAKER_7>It depends on the favor.

00:04:02.057 --> 00:04:04.717

<v SPEAKER_6>Um, well, I just...

00:04:04.717 --> 00:04:06.417

<v SPEAKER_6>I want you to read this aloud.

00:04:06.417 --> 00:04:07.577

<v SPEAKER_7>What is it?

00:04:08.097 --> 00:04:09.817

<v SPEAKER_2>Just read it, please.

00:04:09.817 --> 00:04:10.917

<v SPEAKER_7>Jaz, what is this?

00:04:10.917 --> 00:04:11.317

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm not...

00:04:11.317 --> 00:04:13.397

<v SPEAKER_6>Mommy, please, could you just...

00:04:13.457 --> 00:04:15.717

<v SPEAKER_6>please read it for me?

00:04:31.442 --> 00:04:33.442

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Ella.

00:04:33.442 --> 00:04:38.562

<v SPEAKER_7>Wait, should I, do you want me to start from the beginning, like the top of it?

00:04:38.562 --> 00:04:46.842

<v SPEAKER_7>Ella Ali, 18 East 127th Street, New York, New York, 10035, October 18, 1970.

00:04:48.242 --> 00:04:50.582

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Ella.

00:04:50.582 --> 00:04:53.442

<v SPEAKER_7>Please tell me I said thank you.

00:04:53.442 --> 00:04:57.662

<v SPEAKER_7>I've been running around, breastfeeding around the clock, losing my mind.

00:04:57.662 --> 00:04:59.482

<v SPEAKER_7>I didn't realize it was going to be like this.

00:05:00.502 --> 00:05:02.482

<v SPEAKER_7>I hope I said thank you at least once.

00:05:02.482 --> 00:05:05.902

<v SPEAKER_7>I surely owe you a proper thanks.

00:05:05.902 --> 00:05:09.362

<v SPEAKER_7>Suzanne loves the giraffe you gave her.

00:05:09.362 --> 00:05:13.322

<v SPEAKER_7>And I don't know what I would have done had you not come over to help me.

00:05:20.488 --> 00:05:30.068

<v SPEAKER_7>I know you weren't very happy when I told you I was pregnant, so it meant a lot to me that you showed up and made the trip, especially since you don't care for traveling.

00:05:31.168 --> 00:05:36.048

<v SPEAKER_7>I hope your time with us calmed any of the worries you previously held.

00:05:36.048 --> 00:05:41.128

<v SPEAKER_7>I'd love for Suzanne to have more, but she has what she needs.

00:05:44.988 --> 00:05:47.948

<v SPEAKER_7>Vincent has been so good with her.

00:05:47.948 --> 00:05:49.248

<v SPEAKER_7>She is surrounded by love.

00:05:50.948 --> 00:05:54.308

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Ella, I just love this child.

00:05:54.308 --> 00:05:56.828

<v SPEAKER_7>I love Suzanne so much.

00:05:56.828 --> 00:05:59.328

<v SPEAKER_7>I've never been happier.

00:05:59.328 --> 00:06:03.608

<v SPEAKER_7>She puts a smile on my face and I put a smile on hers.

00:06:03.608 --> 00:06:07.688

<v SPEAKER_7>She laughs and smiles just as much as she cries.

00:06:07.688 --> 00:06:10.528

<v SPEAKER_7>I didn't realize it would be like this.

00:06:10.528 --> 00:06:13.428

<v SPEAKER_7>I didn't realize there would be so much joy.

00:06:15.448 --> 00:06:18.488

<v SPEAKER_7>I wonder if I was just as happy as a baby.

00:06:18.748 --> 00:06:20.888

<v SPEAKER_7>I can't imagine that.

00:06:20.888 --> 00:06:25.308

<v SPEAKER_7>The joy I felt growing up was as fleeting as justice.

00:06:25.308 --> 00:06:30.408

<v SPEAKER_7>Ella, for the first time in my life, I felt happy every single day.

00:06:30.408 --> 00:06:32.628

<v SPEAKER_7>I never dreamed of such a thing.

00:06:34.708 --> 00:06:41.088

<v SPEAKER_7>I truly hate that I ever feared this world would be too broken for a child.

00:06:41.088 --> 00:06:42.308

<v SPEAKER_7>My child.

00:06:43.808 --> 00:06:46.268

<v SPEAKER_7>So many of us have that fear.

00:06:46.268 --> 00:06:47.128

<v SPEAKER_7>You have it, Ella.

00:06:50.748 --> 00:06:54.968

<v SPEAKER_7>Suzanne, she's the reason we struggle, you know.

00:06:54.968 --> 00:06:58.708

<v SPEAKER_7>She's going to bear witness to the freedom we stay up all night talking about.

00:06:58.708 --> 00:07:00.548

<v SPEAKER_7>I just know it.

00:07:00.548 --> 00:07:05.208

<v SPEAKER_7>Her generation won't have to run and hide from love the way I've run from you.

00:07:05.208 --> 00:07:07.008

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm sorry for that.

00:07:08.448 --> 00:07:11.048

<v SPEAKER_7>You deserve better.

00:07:11.048 --> 00:07:12.208

<v SPEAKER_7>I wish for you love.

00:07:13.228 --> 00:07:18.728

<v SPEAKER_7>The kind that Aretha, Etta James, and Lorraine Giovanni sing about.

00:07:18.728 --> 00:07:20.908

<v SPEAKER_7>And I pray you find it soon.

00:07:24.128 --> 00:07:26.908

<v SPEAKER_7>Suzanne needs more than one auntie.

00:07:26.908 --> 00:07:29.868

<v SPEAKER_7>One who can actually cook.

00:07:29.868 --> 00:07:32.208

<v SPEAKER_7>Someone your mother would approve of.

00:07:33.348 --> 00:07:36.448

<v SPEAKER_7>I know you say that you don't want children.

00:07:36.448 --> 00:07:39.848

<v SPEAKER_7>Though I wonder if your time with Suzanne has changed your mind.

00:07:40.888 --> 00:07:44.708

<v SPEAKER_7>You were so good with her and she just loves you.

00:07:45.948 --> 00:07:49.348

<v SPEAKER_7>She cried for hours after you left.

00:07:49.348 --> 00:07:54.888

<v SPEAKER_7>I've told her you're fighting to make her world better and that you'll be back soon.

00:07:54.888 --> 00:07:58.828

<v SPEAKER_7>I hope you don't make us wait too long before your next visit.

00:07:58.828 --> 00:08:03.628

<v SPEAKER_7>I promise I won't be such a pain next time and I'll surely do all the cooking.

00:08:05.268 --> 00:08:08.388

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm grateful for all of your help, well, most of it.

00:08:14.604 --> 00:08:17.684

<v SPEAKER_7>Thank you for the love you've given my daughter.

00:08:17.684 --> 00:08:22.204

<v SPEAKER_7>She'll always have love more than I can even imagine.

00:08:22.204 --> 00:08:30.364

<v SPEAKER_7>And if that's the only thing I can guarantee, I would have done what I was put on this earth to do quite well.

00:08:34.804 --> 00:08:36.524

<v SPEAKER_7>With love, Joe.

00:08:48.009 --> 00:08:49.709

<v SPEAKER_6>Mommy, we can't keep going backwards.

00:09:03.123 --> 00:09:10.023

<v SPEAKER_6>I usually look forward to interviewing my grandma, but today I'm not ready to hear how her and her relationship with Lorraine ended.

00:09:10.023 --> 00:09:16.103

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, I can't help but wonder what made them go their separate ways and why they haven't spoken in decades.

00:09:16.103 --> 00:09:24.043

<v SPEAKER_6>I don't think I really want to know the answer to these questions, but my grandma wants to finish telling her story, and I'm not going to stop her.

00:09:28.483 --> 00:09:33.723

<v SPEAKER_6>So you parted ways, and then Lorraine sang the saddest Sondheim song.

00:09:33.723 --> 00:09:36.543

<v SPEAKER_6>That can't be the last time that you saw each other.

00:09:36.543 --> 00:09:39.003

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, no, it wasn't.

00:09:39.063 --> 00:09:39.823

<v SPEAKER_6>Thank God.

00:09:39.823 --> 00:09:43.903

<v SPEAKER_8>But our final encounter wasn't a walk in the park.

00:09:57.288 --> 00:09:58.368

<v SPEAKER_4>She's in the bathroom.

00:09:58.368 --> 00:10:00.448

<v SPEAKER_4>She'll be out in a minute.

00:10:00.448 --> 00:10:02.028

<v SPEAKER_9>You want some help with the baby?

00:10:02.028 --> 00:10:04.308

<v SPEAKER_10>I got to, LeRoy.

00:10:04.308 --> 00:10:05.428

<v SPEAKER_2>You off somewhere?

00:10:05.428 --> 00:10:09.408

<v SPEAKER_10>Yeah, I'm going to Paris, and then Italy, Venice.

00:10:09.408 --> 00:10:11.768

<v SPEAKER_10>I got a show in Copenhagen, I think.

00:10:11.768 --> 00:10:12.888

<v SPEAKER_1>How cosmopolitan.

00:10:19.847 --> 00:10:22.267

<v SPEAKER_10>You would know if you answered my calls.

00:10:22.327 --> 00:10:24.327

<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, Suzanne.

00:10:25.887 --> 00:10:27.887

<v SPEAKER_9>What's wrong, my love?

00:10:29.427 --> 00:10:31.607

<v SPEAKER_9>She's gotten so big.

00:10:31.607 --> 00:10:33.647

<v SPEAKER_10>She's the reason why I'm here.

00:10:34.667 --> 00:10:37.607

<v SPEAKER_10>I was hoping you could watch after her while I'm on this tour.

00:10:37.607 --> 00:10:40.527

<v SPEAKER_10>The road ain't a great place for a child.

00:10:40.527 --> 00:10:44.687

<v SPEAKER_9>I thought you said a baby shouldn't be raised in a house full of revolutionaries.

00:10:44.687 --> 00:10:52.367

<v SPEAKER_10>I said she shouldn't be raised in a house full of delusional motherfuckers that keep trying to get themselves killed.

00:10:52.367 --> 00:10:53.987

<v SPEAKER_9>Huh.

00:10:53.987 --> 00:10:55.747

<v SPEAKER_9>Right.

00:10:55.767 --> 00:10:57.487

<v SPEAKER_9>Right.

00:10:57.487 --> 00:11:00.347

<v SPEAKER_9>I must have erased that from my memory.

00:11:00.347 --> 00:11:03.267

<v SPEAKER_10>I was just trying to talk some sense into you.

00:11:03.267 --> 00:11:05.307

<v SPEAKER_10>You just got out of jail.

00:11:05.307 --> 00:11:10.467

<v SPEAKER_10>And now you're doing the same stupid shit that'll have the government coming after your ass all over again.

00:11:10.527 --> 00:11:17.807

<v SPEAKER_9>This shit I'm doing, we're doing, creating change the kind Suzanne deserves.

00:11:18.967 --> 00:11:22.807

<v SPEAKER_9>Do you want her to live in the same violent world we've been living in?

00:11:22.807 --> 00:11:25.487

<v SPEAKER_10>I just want to know if you keep the girl until I come back.

00:11:25.487 --> 00:11:27.067

<v SPEAKER_9>And when will that be?

00:11:27.067 --> 00:11:28.987

<v SPEAKER_10>Two more months.

00:11:28.987 --> 00:11:31.067

<v SPEAKER_10>Maybe three.

00:11:31.067 --> 00:11:33.227

<v SPEAKER_9>I'll keep her.

00:11:33.227 --> 00:11:36.147

<v SPEAKER_9>Me and my delusional comrades will take good care of her.

00:11:37.727 --> 00:11:39.287

<v SPEAKER_10>Goodbye, Suzanne.

00:11:42.807 --> 00:11:44.767

<v SPEAKER_10>Ella.

00:11:53.912 --> 00:11:57.172

<v SPEAKER_8>Lorraine was always on some bullshit.

00:11:57.172 --> 00:11:59.012

<v SPEAKER_8>Excuse my French.

00:11:59.012 --> 00:12:01.732

<v SPEAKER_8>Sometimes she could be so selfish.

00:12:01.732 --> 00:12:06.972

<v SPEAKER_8>She never wanted to take care of your mother, and she knew that when she dropped her off.

00:12:06.972 --> 00:12:11.032

<v SPEAKER_8>She didn't have the courage to be honest with me or herself.

00:12:13.952 --> 00:12:16.052

<v SPEAKER_11>I never went back for Suzanne.

00:12:16.052 --> 00:12:20.432

<v SPEAKER_11>I figured she'd be better off with Ella.

00:12:20.432 --> 00:12:24.372

<v SPEAKER_11>I knew I wasn't the mother in type, which is why I did what I did.

00:12:24.372 --> 00:12:29.312

<v SPEAKER_11>Maybe that was unfair to Ella, but I don't regret it.

00:12:29.312 --> 00:12:31.172

<v SPEAKER_6>What do you regret?

00:12:31.172 --> 00:12:39.392

<v SPEAKER_11>I would need a bottle of red to answer that one, but I've been sober for 36 years, and thinking about regretting ain't worth my sobriety.

00:12:40.512 --> 00:12:45.952

<v SPEAKER_8>Oh, regret is a long-ass road, and it's not wise to go down it.

00:12:45.952 --> 00:12:49.032

<v SPEAKER_6>Grandma, why haven't you tried to get in touch with Lorraine?

00:12:49.032 --> 00:12:50.812

<v SPEAKER_8>Who says I haven't tried?

00:12:50.852 --> 00:12:51.912

<v SPEAKER_6>So you have.

00:12:51.912 --> 00:12:59.532

<v SPEAKER_8>I've been tempted, but I know nothing good can come from disrupting the lives we've made for ourselves.

00:12:59.532 --> 00:13:01.872

<v SPEAKER_6>Do you still have feelings for Lorraine?

00:13:01.872 --> 00:13:04.912

<v SPEAKER_8>Uh, I don't know.

00:13:05.492 --> 00:13:07.792

<v SPEAKER_8>I really don't know her now.

00:13:10.212 --> 00:13:12.212

<v SPEAKER_6>Mom, we're recording.

00:13:12.212 --> 00:13:14.232

<v SPEAKER_7>Your father and I have something for you.

00:13:14.232 --> 00:13:16.672

<v SPEAKER_8>It's time we take a break anyway.

00:13:16.672 --> 00:13:17.152

<v SPEAKER_6>What's this?

00:13:17.712 --> 00:13:19.592

<v SPEAKER_9>Open the envelope and see.

00:13:21.732 --> 00:13:23.172

<v SPEAKER_6>These are plane tickets.

00:13:23.172 --> 00:13:24.432

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh my God.

00:13:25.952 --> 00:13:26.472

<v SPEAKER_13>What?

00:13:26.472 --> 00:13:30.292

<v SPEAKER_6>Wait, I can't believe you actually came to my persistence.

00:13:30.292 --> 00:13:34.112

<v SPEAKER_6>I've been asking to do an annual trip in Paris for like years.

00:13:34.112 --> 00:13:35.612

<v SPEAKER_13>Well, we're proud of you.

00:13:35.612 --> 00:13:38.932

<v SPEAKER_7>Yeah, and I figured we should take this vacation while you still want to do it with us.

00:13:38.932 --> 00:13:42.292

<v SPEAKER_7>Soon you're going to be traveling the world with your college friends.

00:13:42.292 --> 00:13:43.872

<v SPEAKER_6>Grandma, are you going too?

00:13:43.872 --> 00:13:45.752

<v SPEAKER_7>You know how your grandmother feels about flying.

00:13:47.332 --> 00:13:48.552

<v SPEAKER_7>But she's coming with us.

00:13:48.552 --> 00:13:51.052

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, my God.

00:13:51.052 --> 00:13:52.452

<v SPEAKER_6>I'm so excited.

00:13:52.452 --> 00:13:54.392

<v SPEAKER_6>We have to do the James Baldwin Tour.

00:13:54.392 --> 00:13:55.352

<v SPEAKER_6>We have to do the Canal St.

00:13:55.352 --> 00:13:55.692

<v SPEAKER_6>Martin.

00:13:55.692 --> 00:13:57.212

<v SPEAKER_6>I hear it's beautiful.

00:13:57.212 --> 00:13:59.532

<v SPEAKER_6>And there's this girl that I follow online.

00:13:59.532 --> 00:14:01.192

<v SPEAKER_6>And she has this great crepe place in the 10th.

00:14:01.192 --> 00:14:02.352

<v SPEAKER_6>I have to ask her about that.

00:14:02.352 --> 00:14:07.052

<v SPEAKER_6>And then I can ask Adrienne about this bakery that she loved when she went there.

00:14:07.052 --> 00:14:08.832

<v SPEAKER_7>How about you get packed first?

00:14:17.972 --> 00:14:19.472

<v SPEAKER_12>Oh my god.

00:14:19.472 --> 00:14:22.672

<v SPEAKER_6>I can't believe my parents surprised me with their trip to Paris.

00:14:22.672 --> 00:14:24.592

<v SPEAKER_6>I'm so excited.

00:14:24.592 --> 00:14:30.392

<v SPEAKER_6>But I'm even more excited to discover that Lorraine will be in Paris while we're there.

00:14:30.392 --> 00:14:31.672

<v SPEAKER_6>The story writes itself.

00:14:31.672 --> 00:14:33.212

<v SPEAKER_6>I couldn't write a better one if I tried.

00:14:33.212 --> 00:14:36.172

<v SPEAKER_6>So she'll be performing at the Paris Jazz Festival.

00:14:36.392 --> 00:14:38.812

<v SPEAKER_6>So you know what I have to do, right?

00:14:50.832 --> 00:14:52.552

<v SPEAKER_4>Hey, Jaz, what's up?

00:14:52.552 --> 00:14:54.632

<v SPEAKER_4>Adrian, hi.

00:14:54.632 --> 00:14:58.912

<v SPEAKER_6>Well, I just wanted to call, because I have some crazy news.

00:14:58.912 --> 00:15:01.552

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, so do I, actually.

00:15:01.552 --> 00:15:04.652

<v SPEAKER_6>Okay, mine is good news.

00:15:04.652 --> 00:15:06.892

<v SPEAKER_7>Mine isn't so great.

00:15:06.892 --> 00:15:08.532

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh my god, is everything okay?

00:15:08.532 --> 00:15:09.172

<v SPEAKER_4>Are you okay?

00:15:09.172 --> 00:15:10.632

<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, yeah, I'm fine.

00:15:10.632 --> 00:15:11.512

<v SPEAKER_6>What's your news?

00:15:12.592 --> 00:15:16.132

<v SPEAKER_6>No, let's do the bad news first.

00:15:16.132 --> 00:15:16.392

<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:15:19.692 --> 00:15:25.552

<v SPEAKER_4>Jaz, I really care about you.

00:15:25.552 --> 00:15:25.872

<v SPEAKER_4>Me too.

00:15:25.872 --> 00:15:29.532

<v SPEAKER_6>I care about you a lot, too.

00:15:29.532 --> 00:15:35.232

<v SPEAKER_6>So I think we should just be friends.

00:15:35.232 --> 00:15:36.932

<v SPEAKER_6>Just be?

00:15:37.552 --> 00:15:40.892

<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, you're like my best friend, for sure.

00:15:40.892 --> 00:15:41.552

<v SPEAKER_6>Right.

00:15:41.552 --> 00:15:44.672

<v SPEAKER_13>Yeah, I just think that that's all we should be.

00:15:49.492 --> 00:15:51.492

<v SPEAKER_6>Um, okay.

00:15:53.592 --> 00:15:54.672

<v SPEAKER_6>What change?

00:15:54.672 --> 00:15:58.252

<v SPEAKER_6>Did I, did I do something?

00:15:58.252 --> 00:15:58.672

<v SPEAKER_13>No, no, no.

00:15:58.932 --> 00:15:59.752

<v SPEAKER_6>You didn't do anything.

00:15:59.752 --> 00:16:05.192

<v SPEAKER_6>It's just I want to keep my options open, romantically.

00:16:08.472 --> 00:16:09.772

<v SPEAKER_13>Hello?

00:16:09.772 --> 00:16:14.292

<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, I, so, I get that.

00:16:15.512 --> 00:16:17.272

<v SPEAKER_11>Um, sorry.

00:16:17.272 --> 00:16:19.132

<v SPEAKER_6>My mom's Collin.

00:16:19.132 --> 00:16:24.112

<v SPEAKER_6>She's yelling at me about the dishes, so I'm gonna, I gotta, I gotta go.

00:18:40.366 --> 00:18:41.866

<v SPEAKER_13>What you do.

00:19:56.567 --> 00:19:57.727

<v SPEAKER_1>So I don't want to know.

00:20:33.746 --> 00:20:38.366

<v SPEAKER_8>Jazz, I brought you a plate before your father eats all the lasagna.

00:20:38.366 --> 00:20:39.786

<v SPEAKER_6>Thanks.

00:20:39.786 --> 00:20:44.126

<v SPEAKER_8>I see you've barely packed.

00:20:44.126 --> 00:20:45.846

<v SPEAKER_6>I'll get to it later.

00:20:45.866 --> 00:20:50.166

<v SPEAKER_8>Uh, before or after we board the plane.

00:20:50.166 --> 00:20:56.946

<v SPEAKER_8>My dear, I don't want you to let this breakup dim your excitement for this trip.

00:20:56.946 --> 00:20:59.566

<v SPEAKER_6>How did you know me and Adrian broke up?

00:20:59.566 --> 00:21:08.786

<v SPEAKER_8>You didn't come down for dinner, even though your dad made your favorite meal, and you've been playing that sad Lorraine song all day.

00:21:08.786 --> 00:21:09.186

<v SPEAKER_6>What?

00:21:09.186 --> 00:21:11.066

<v SPEAKER_6>She has the best sad songs.

00:21:11.066 --> 00:21:16.306

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, it's time to pause Lorraine, pack your bags and perk up.

00:21:16.306 --> 00:21:18.506

<v SPEAKER_8>We're going to the City of Love.

00:21:18.506 --> 00:21:21.846

<v SPEAKER_8>You might just find romance in the Paris air.

00:21:21.846 --> 00:21:23.746

<v SPEAKER_6>Or maybe you will.

00:21:23.746 --> 00:21:24.986

<v SPEAKER_8>I don't know about that.

00:21:37.882 --> 00:21:41.102

<v SPEAKER_13>And call for flight 325B to Paris, France.

00:23:17.568 --> 00:23:20.148

<v SPEAKER_7>We've been waiting here long enough.

00:23:20.148 --> 00:23:21.368

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm ready to go.

00:23:21.368 --> 00:23:23.668

<v SPEAKER_6>No, Mom, we have to stick to our itinerary.

00:23:23.668 --> 00:23:27.068

<v SPEAKER_7>Jazz, we've done everything you wanted to do ever since we landed.

00:23:27.068 --> 00:23:28.368

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm taking over now.

00:23:28.368 --> 00:23:30.288

<v SPEAKER_12>You want to try that steakhouse we walked by?

00:23:30.288 --> 00:23:31.168

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, yes.

00:23:31.168 --> 00:23:32.908

<v SPEAKER_7>The food looks so good.

00:23:32.908 --> 00:23:35.008

<v SPEAKER_2>No, we can't.

00:23:35.008 --> 00:23:36.788

<v SPEAKER_13>I already bought tickets for the show.

00:23:36.788 --> 00:23:38.288

<v SPEAKER_7>What show, Jazz?

00:23:38.288 --> 00:23:41.328

<v SPEAKER_7>You haven't given us any information about this show.

00:23:41.328 --> 00:23:48.148

<v SPEAKER_6>We've been having a good time thus far, so can you please just trust that everything I planned will be just as fun?

00:23:48.148 --> 00:23:51.628

<v SPEAKER_9>I think I would have more fun with food in my system.

00:23:51.728 --> 00:23:52.568

<v SPEAKER_6>I can stay.

00:23:52.568 --> 00:23:54.248

<v SPEAKER_13>I'm going to go find something to eat.

00:23:54.248 --> 00:23:55.628

<v SPEAKER_7>I'm coming with you, babe.

00:23:55.628 --> 00:23:56.728

<v SPEAKER_7>Mom, do you want to come?

00:23:56.728 --> 00:23:58.708

<v SPEAKER_6>No, Grandma has to stay.

00:23:58.708 --> 00:24:04.988

<v SPEAKER_6>I mean, Grandma, I'd like you to stay because one of your favorite artists is performing.

00:24:04.988 --> 00:24:06.448

<v SPEAKER_8>Which one?

00:24:06.448 --> 00:24:08.488

<v SPEAKER_7>We'll see you two back at the hotel.

00:24:09.728 --> 00:24:10.988

<v SPEAKER_6>Grandma, I'll be right back.

00:24:10.988 --> 00:24:13.008

<v SPEAKER_6>I'm going to see what's taking too long.

00:24:13.008 --> 00:24:13.448

<v SPEAKER_6>It'll be quick.

00:24:22.973 --> 00:24:23.133

<v SPEAKER_6>Ms.

00:24:23.133 --> 00:24:26.793

<v SPEAKER_6>Giovanni, hello, bonjour, I'm...

00:24:26.793 --> 00:24:31.313

<v SPEAKER_11>Jasmine, oh, it's so lovely to meet you in person.

00:24:31.313 --> 00:24:32.793

<v SPEAKER_11>Welcome to Paris.

00:24:32.793 --> 00:24:34.333

<v SPEAKER_11>How you like in the city?

00:24:34.333 --> 00:24:35.093

<v SPEAKER_6>I love it.

00:24:35.093 --> 00:24:36.353

<v SPEAKER_6>I mean, we all love it.

00:24:36.353 --> 00:24:38.893

<v SPEAKER_6>My parents and my grandmother are here.

00:24:38.893 --> 00:24:41.913

<v SPEAKER_6>My grandmother is waiting outside.

00:24:41.913 --> 00:24:43.193

<v SPEAKER_11>Let's not keep her waiting.

00:24:49.875 --> 00:24:53.595

<v SPEAKER_11>All right, I'm ready to meet my biggest fan.

00:24:53.595 --> 00:24:55.915

<v SPEAKER_12>Surprise!

00:24:55.935 --> 00:24:58.655

<v SPEAKER_6>Reunited!

00:24:58.655 --> 00:25:00.395

<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God!

00:25:01.535 --> 00:25:03.795

<v SPEAKER_12>Love.

00:25:03.795 --> 00:25:06.075

<v SPEAKER_12>How do we feel?

00:25:06.075 --> 00:25:09.355

<v SPEAKER_6>Grandma, your mouth is open.

00:25:09.355 --> 00:25:10.655

<v SPEAKER_6>Grandma?

00:25:10.655 --> 00:25:11.555

<v SPEAKER_6>Hello?

00:25:11.555 --> 00:25:13.175

<v SPEAKER_6>Oh God.

00:25:13.255 --> 00:25:15.475

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella Ali?

00:25:15.475 --> 00:25:17.035

<v SPEAKER_11>Is your grandmother?

00:25:17.035 --> 00:25:17.855

<v SPEAKER_6>Yes.

00:25:17.855 --> 00:25:19.035

<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, she is.

00:25:19.035 --> 00:25:21.575

<v SPEAKER_6>And she's told me a lot about you.

00:25:21.575 --> 00:25:22.795

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh dear.

00:25:22.795 --> 00:25:25.435

<v SPEAKER_6>It's been all love though, for the most part.

00:25:25.435 --> 00:25:26.635

<v SPEAKER_6>Right, Grandma?

00:25:27.895 --> 00:25:32.915

<v SPEAKER_6>Okay, I'm getting concerned about my grandmother's sudden inability to say words.

00:25:32.915 --> 00:25:34.975

<v SPEAKER_6>I should go find my parents.

00:25:34.975 --> 00:25:35.595

<v SPEAKER_6>I'll be right back.

00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:40.415

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella Ali.

00:25:40.415 --> 00:25:41.895

<v SPEAKER_8>Forgive me.

00:25:44.755 --> 00:25:47.715

<v SPEAKER_8>I haven't eaten.

00:25:47.715 --> 00:25:52.335

<v SPEAKER_11>You never were good at making sure you got all your meals in.

00:25:54.055 --> 00:25:56.655

<v SPEAKER_11>Are you just going to stare at me?

00:25:56.655 --> 00:26:00.555

<v SPEAKER_11>I know I've aged well, but that's to be expected.

00:26:02.555 --> 00:26:05.095

<v SPEAKER_8>You were always so confident.

00:26:05.995 --> 00:26:07.935

<v SPEAKER_8>I can't believe I-

00:26:10.175 --> 00:26:12.195

<v SPEAKER_8>I can't believe that.

00:26:13.415 --> 00:26:17.175

<v SPEAKER_8>That granddaughter of mine.

00:26:21.995 --> 00:26:22.415

<v SPEAKER_7>Wait.

00:26:22.415 --> 00:26:24.815

<v SPEAKER_7>What do you mean you set her up with her ex?

00:26:24.815 --> 00:26:27.775

<v SPEAKER_6>Not her ex, her soulmate, Lorraine.

00:26:27.775 --> 00:26:28.775

<v SPEAKER_7>Where's your grandmother?

00:26:28.775 --> 00:26:30.295

<v SPEAKER_7>Why isn't she with you now?

00:26:30.295 --> 00:26:31.655

<v SPEAKER_6>She's backstage with Lorraine.

00:26:31.655 --> 00:26:32.795

<v SPEAKER_6>I mean, you should have saw her.

00:26:32.795 --> 00:26:34.995

<v SPEAKER_6>Her grandma just completely froze.

00:26:34.995 --> 00:26:36.015

<v SPEAKER_7>Of course she froze.

00:26:36.015 --> 00:26:37.395

<v SPEAKER_7>What else would you expect?

00:26:37.455 --> 00:26:38.955

<v SPEAKER_6>She might still be frozen.

00:26:38.955 --> 00:26:42.115

<v SPEAKER_7>Oh, Jazmine, I swear, if you make my mama have a heart attack.

00:26:42.115 --> 00:26:44.555

<v SPEAKER_9>All right now, calm down.

00:26:44.555 --> 00:26:46.415

<v SPEAKER_9>No one is having a heart attack.

00:26:49.795 --> 00:26:56.595

<v SPEAKER_8>I would hug you, but I'm afraid I might mess up your sequence.

00:26:56.595 --> 00:26:57.975

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, I don't care about that.

00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:12.020

<v SPEAKER_11>I never imagined I'd ever get to see you, touch you again.

00:27:12.020 --> 00:27:14.880

<v SPEAKER_11>I wrote, I called, I sent holiday cards.

00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.740

<v SPEAKER_11>You never responded.

00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:22.060

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, Lorraine, I couldn't keep getting my heart broken then repaired and broken again.

00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:27.240

<v SPEAKER_8>You can only heal the heart so many times before it doesn't beat anymore.

00:27:28.760 --> 00:27:31.200

<v SPEAKER_11>I can feel your heart.

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.880

<v SPEAKER_11>It's beating fast.

00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:38.180

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, you might remember, I don't care much for surprises.

00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:42.280

<v SPEAKER_8>And this is the type that could send me into cardiac arrest.

00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:44.280

<v SPEAKER_11>Now, don't do that.

00:27:44.280 --> 00:27:48.520

<v SPEAKER_11>Not when I finally have you in my arms.

00:27:48.540 --> 00:27:53.920

<v SPEAKER_8>Lorraine, my hair is stuck on your sequins.

00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.820

<v SPEAKER_11>Oh, hold on.

00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:56.600

<v SPEAKER_8>Shit.

00:27:56.600 --> 00:27:58.080

<v SPEAKER_11>I got it off.

00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:01.060

<v SPEAKER_11>Sorry about that.

00:28:01.060 --> 00:28:02.720

<v SPEAKER_8>You don't have to apologize.

00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.980

<v SPEAKER_8>You don't have anything to be sorry for.

00:28:09.080 --> 00:28:11.580

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't know about that.

00:28:11.580 --> 00:28:14.180

<v SPEAKER_8>We didn't know better back then.

00:28:14.180 --> 00:28:17.620

<v SPEAKER_8>We didn't know much of anything at all in our youth.

00:28:17.620 --> 00:28:20.080

<v SPEAKER_11>But I knew I loved you.

00:28:20.080 --> 00:28:21.100

<v SPEAKER_8>Loved?

00:28:21.100 --> 00:28:24.080

<v SPEAKER_11>I never stopped loving you.

00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:26.440

<v SPEAKER_8>Neither did I.

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:31.640

<v SPEAKER_11>Then why have you stayed so distant all these years?

00:28:32.580 --> 00:28:36.180

<v SPEAKER_8>You went on and dedicated your life to the Lord.

00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:38.720

<v SPEAKER_8>You stopped sending cards about that time.

00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:44.460

<v SPEAKER_8>So I figured you'd have to hate me to be right with the Lord.

00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:46.660

<v SPEAKER_11>That wouldn't be very Christ-like.

00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:50.800

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, you know church folks can be hateful.

00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:53.600

<v SPEAKER_11>Not all of us are bigots, Ella.

00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:58.020

<v SPEAKER_8>I don't necessarily think tolerant is that much better.

00:28:58.060 --> 00:29:01.120

<v SPEAKER_11>Kiss a day on as close-minded as our generation.

00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:05.560

<v SPEAKER_11>I've actually officiated several L-G-B-

00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:09.100

<v SPEAKER_8>T-Q-I-A plus.

00:29:09.100 --> 00:29:10.180

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:11.320

<v SPEAKER_11>Yes.

00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:14.520

<v SPEAKER_11>I've done all kinds of weddings at my church.

00:29:14.520 --> 00:29:16.500

<v SPEAKER_8>How wonderful.

00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.600

<v SPEAKER_8>How's that been?

00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:23.720

<v SPEAKER_11>Sometimes it's hard for me to see these young folks get to live the life we didn't get to have.

00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:28.940

<v SPEAKER_11>I don't know if that's my fault or if it was just the time.

00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:34.180

<v SPEAKER_11>Maybe I should have worked harder to defy the time.

00:29:34.180 --> 00:29:36.840

<v SPEAKER_11>That's what you always kept trying to get me to do.

00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:39.120

<v SPEAKER_8>Well, it's not your fault.

00:29:39.120 --> 00:29:41.820

<v SPEAKER_11>We haven't seen each other in decades.

00:29:41.820 --> 00:29:49.500

<v SPEAKER_11>Decades, Ella, of solitude, of not seeing you, feeling you, trying to forget you.

00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:57.780

<v SPEAKER_8>I tell Jasmine all the time, it's not wise to go down the road of regret, but you already know that.

00:29:57.780 --> 00:30:03.020

<v SPEAKER_8>There's no need to regret a thing when you can still have everything you want.

00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:12.440

<v SPEAKER_11>What if I want to spend the rest of my life with you?

00:30:12.460 --> 00:30:18.220

<v SPEAKER_11>I...

00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:19.240

<v SPEAKER_13>Sorry to interrupt, Lorraine.

00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.800

<v SPEAKER_2>It's your turn to do your sound check.

00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:23.280

<v SPEAKER_11>Ella, why don't you come listen?

00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.760

<v SPEAKER_11>Let me know what you think about my new song.

00:30:26.760 --> 00:30:28.180

<v SPEAKER_10>What new song?

00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:31.820

<v SPEAKER_11>It's one I've been writing for a while.

00:30:31.820 --> 00:30:33.380

<v SPEAKER_11>What do you say, Ella?

00:30:33.380 --> 00:30:36.060

<v SPEAKER_11>It'll be like old times.

00:30:36.060 --> 00:30:38.680

<v SPEAKER_8>I think I'd like that.

00:30:46.578 --> 00:30:51.258

<v SPEAKER_6>When I set out to make a podcast about my grandmother's love life, I had a lot of fear.

00:30:51.258 --> 00:30:53.538

<v SPEAKER_6>I was afraid of re-traumatizing my grandmother.

00:30:53.538 --> 00:30:57.458

<v SPEAKER_6>I feared that Lorraine would be a diva and come for my entire life.

00:30:57.458 --> 00:31:02.458

<v SPEAKER_6>I was afraid to come out to my parents, and I regretted it soon after.

00:31:02.458 --> 00:31:06.538

<v SPEAKER_6>I was afraid to tell Adrienne how I felt about her, and I regret that too.

00:31:06.538 --> 00:31:12.458

<v SPEAKER_6>I was afraid to reunite my grandmother, Ella Ali, with the love of her life, Lorraine Giovanni.

00:31:12.458 --> 00:31:13.618

<v SPEAKER_6>I thought it would be a disaster.

00:31:14.818 --> 00:31:21.058

<v SPEAKER_6>And even though I carried all of those fears, I knew this endeavor was important.

00:31:21.058 --> 00:31:36.578

<v SPEAKER_6>But I didn't know why until I saw my grandma standing in the front row of that concert hall in Paris, with tears in her eyes, as she listened to the rain profess her love through song in front of thousands of people.

00:31:37.898 --> 00:31:44.658

<v SPEAKER_12>Paris, s'il vous plait applaudissez pour la première d'un des chansons d'humour, mademoiselle Lorraine Giovanni.

00:36:21.932 --> 00:36:25.012

<v SPEAKER_5>Thank you for listening to Red For Revolution.

00:36:25.012 --> 00:36:27.132

<v SPEAKER_5>Love is in the air.

00:36:27.132 --> 00:36:31.752

<v SPEAKER_5>Claim it, give it, receive it, and repeat.

00:36:31.752 --> 00:36:39.452

<v SPEAKER_5>Red For Revolution was created, written, and directed by Jana Naomi Smith, with musical direction by Tammy L.

00:36:39.452 --> 00:36:43.412

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall, and sound design by Collin Gerald Thomas.

00:36:43.412 --> 00:36:53.372

<v SPEAKER_5>The series was executive produced by Renée Wilson, Jana Smith, and Meta Mana Media, and produced by Liz McBee.

00:36:53.372 --> 00:36:59.432

<v SPEAKER_5>This episode featured performances by Jordan Hull as Jazmine James, S.

00:36:59.432 --> 00:37:32.672

<v SPEAKER_5>Epatha Merkerson as Ella Ali, Present Day, Loretta Devine as Lorraine Giovanni, Present Day, Rutina Wesley as Ella Ali in the 1970s, Renée Wilson as Lorraine Giovanni in the 1970s, Jennifer Beals as Suzanne Sands, Alimi Ballard as Leroy, Caro Guzmán as Adrienne, Malakiy Rhoden as Miles James, Ashley J.

00:37:32.672 --> 00:37:49.312

<v SPEAKER_5>Hobbs as airline announcer, Matthew Quitney as stage manager, Christine Angelique as Paris Music Festival announcer, and this is Adrienne Murray Brown, your sonic guide to this experience.

00:37:49.312 --> 00:37:54.452

<v SPEAKER_5>Our associate producers were Jordan Hull, Adrian Snegg, and Vanessa E.

00:37:54.452 --> 00:37:55.872

<v SPEAKER_5>Williams.

00:37:55.872 --> 00:38:15.052

<v SPEAKER_13>For Radiotopia Presents, Yooree Losordo is the managing producer, Audrey Mardavich is the executive producer, Red For Revolution is part of Radiotopia Presents, a podcast feed that debuts limited-run, artist-owned series from new and original voices.

00:38:15.052 --> 00:38:20.112

<v SPEAKER_13>Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:38:20.112 --> 00:38:23.012

<v SPEAKER_5>Our Red For Revolution Band includes Tammy L.

00:38:23.012 --> 00:38:36.772

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall on piano, Kofy Brown on electric bass, Ruth Davies on acoustic bass, Ruthie Price on drums, Kristen Strom on saxophone and flute, and percussionist Vicki Randle.

00:38:36.772 --> 00:38:40.652

<v SPEAKER_5>All original music written and composed by Tammy L.

00:38:40.652 --> 00:38:43.972

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith.

00:38:43.972 --> 00:38:48.032

<v SPEAKER_5>Our assembly editor was Jana Naomi Smith.

00:38:48.032 --> 00:39:02.932

<v SPEAKER_5>Our production assistants were Shante Robinson, Paige Lewis, Taylor Wothrie, Hortense Lingardé, Destiny Stewart, Mariah Brown, Danuda Januszewski.

00:39:02.932 --> 00:39:14.092

<v SPEAKER_5>Our readers were Caro Guzmán, Miles Agee, Renée Wilson, Shirley Jordan, Malakiy Rhoden, Janessa St.

00:39:14.092 --> 00:39:16.172

<v SPEAKER_5>Pierre, Ashley J.

00:39:16.172 --> 00:39:21.112

<v SPEAKER_5>Hobbs, Rachel Jarvis, Christine Angelique.

00:39:21.112 --> 00:39:27.552

<v SPEAKER_5>Our script supervisors were Caro Guzmán, Maura Fallon, and Rachel Jarvis.

00:39:27.552 --> 00:39:32.432

<v SPEAKER_5>Our session photographers were Bethany Hines, Vic Rincón, and G.

00:39:32.432 --> 00:39:33.912

<v SPEAKER_5>Grimmald-Alves.

00:39:33.912 --> 00:40:00.132

<v SPEAKER_5>Additional behind the scenes content was provided by Shante Robinson, Caro Guzmán, Paige Lewis, Hortense Lingardé, Rachel Jarvis, Mariah Brown, Renée Wilson, Jana Naomi Smith, Liz McBee, Jennifer Beals, Danuda Januszewski, Christine Angelique, Adrienne Marie Brown, David Hill, and Aurelia Belfield.

00:40:00.132 --> 00:40:09.232

<v SPEAKER_5>Our consultants were Ari Golden, Caro Guzmán, SoundMaid Public, Rachel Jarvis, SJ.

00:40:09.232 --> 00:40:10.472

<v SPEAKER_5>DiMatteo.

00:40:10.472 --> 00:40:16.652

<v SPEAKER_5>Our COVID compliance officers were Elliot Saldivar and Ali Foster.

00:40:16.652 --> 00:40:29.592

<v SPEAKER_5>Our studio engineers were David Corwin, Carl Force, Michael McDonald, Will Reyes, Bill Siegmund, Gabriel Sheppard, Tyler Shields, and David Hill.

00:40:29.592 --> 00:40:39.392

<v SPEAKER_5>Our studio managers were Eric Johnson, Dave Nelson, Kevin Campbell, Keith Munson, Jean Turner, and David Corwin.

00:40:39.992 --> 00:40:50.192

<v SPEAKER_5>Our studio support staff were Camille Hoffman, Christy Chiani, Jean Turner, Anita Hallberg, and Aurelia Belfield.

00:40:50.192 --> 00:41:00.772

<v SPEAKER_5>Our black-owned vendors for this project were Rooted Floral Design, Sava Dejakmel, L'Etoile Apothecary, and Affirmation Jewelry.

00:41:00.772 --> 00:41:11.212

<v SPEAKER_5>Our branding and marketing team was BWB, Casey Carroll and Kate Fitzpatrick, Tiana Buchanan and Brooke Harten.

00:41:11.272 --> 00:41:44.272

<v SPEAKER_5>R for R was recorded at 25th Street Recording in Oakland, California, East West Studios in Los Angeles, California, War Drum Mixing Studios in Savannah, Georgia, Patches Sound in Los Angeles, California, Pinewood Sound in Vancouver, British Columbia, Outpost Studios in San Francisco, California, Digital Island Studios in New York, New York, Lime Studios in Los Angeles, California, and Trailblazer Studios in Raleigh, North Carolina.

00:41:44.272 --> 00:41:56.392

<v SPEAKER_5>The music featured in this episode includes, I Love Paris, written by Cole Porter, performed by Loretta Devine, courtesy of Warner Chappell Music, Inc.

00:41:56.392 --> 00:41:59.932

<v SPEAKER_5>Dare to Love, original composition by Tammy L.

00:41:59.932 --> 00:42:04.212

<v SPEAKER_5>Hall and Jana Naomi Smith, performed by Loretta Devine.

00:42:04.212 --> 00:42:09.872

<v SPEAKER_5>The team behind Red For Revolution would like to thank everyone who helped bring this project to life.

00:42:09.872 --> 00:42:15.952

<v SPEAKER_5>To view the complete credit and gratitude list, please see the show notes or visit redforevolution.com.

00:42:17.152 --> 00:42:21.112

<v SPEAKER_5>Thank you for listening to Red For Revolution, an audio drama.

00:42:21.112 --> 00:42:24.352

<v SPEAKER_5>We hope you enjoy traveling across time with us.

00:42:24.352 --> 00:42:29.312

<v SPEAKER_5>While this chapter of R for R is coming to a close, the revolution isn't over.

00:42:29.972 --> 00:42:33.252

<v SPEAKER_5>We look forward to bringing more stories your way.

00:42:33.252 --> 00:42:36.552

<v SPEAKER_5>In the meantime, follow us on social media.

00:42:36.552 --> 00:42:45.652

<v SPEAKER_5>Sign up for our newsletter and visit our website for support resources, event information and 1970s historical tidbits.

00:42:45.692 --> 00:42:49.412

<v SPEAKER_5>This has been your sonic goddess, Adrienne Marie Brown, signing off.

00:42:55.932 --> 00:42:58.012

<v SPEAKER_11>Radiotopia, from PRX.